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You must use this sump plug!!!!

Discussion in 'Bling and Appearance' at netrider.net.au started by jeffatav, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. I haven't changed the oil on my TTR 250 for a while and was expecting the worst!

    Today was the day and I opened up the sump plug to find the blackest oil I have seen for a long time.

    I use a stainless steel reuseable filter and was dreading what would be coming out of that when I cleaned it.

    Then I remembered I had a rare earth magentic sump plug and had a look at that which was covered in a "greasy" metallic blob!!

    I removed the filter and swished it in cleaner and really struggled to get much cr@p out at all!!!

    The plug had taken most of the cr@p (that would be in the filter) straight out of the oil circulation and the plug was "difficult" to wipe clean.

    I got it off ebay and I am now going to look for one for the hornet as I am now convinced it will further prolong engine life expectency.

    Must be the best value bolt going



    Prease consde grasshoppers :LOL:

    jeff
     
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  2. The original Mini had a magnetic sump plug to prevent bits of hardened steel from the gearbox damaging the engine. Magnetic sump plug would definitely be a good idea for some bikes for the same reason - though with many modern sportsbikes I doubt there'd be enough ferrous material for a magnet to make much of a difference (most of the black stuff in the engine oil would be little bits of alloy).
     
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  3. Alloy,even in oil, is a silvery grey colour...

    The black, I think we will find, is carbonaceous by-products of combustion = blowby. Some could also be friction material from the clutch plates - usually brownish.

    Cheers

    Trevor G
     
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  4. "Coarse" bits are, but fine bits of metal are most definitely black. Carbon is more of a brownish colour but can appear black to the naked eye in high concentrations (still brown under a microscope though).
     
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  5. +1 Magnetic sump plug.

    I had a small, non-vital bearing fail the other day. Much nicer to have the ball bearings drawn to the sump plug than floating around in your sump/gearbox.
     
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  6. Yep. Excellent devices. Hard to clean. Comes standard on the Ducati. :)
     
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  7. Clean 'em with one of those super-crazy-rare-earth magnets. I don't think that is their technical name.
     
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  8. Actually I use a magnet out of a hard disk drive I pulled apart some time ago. Those magnets can take your finger off if you leave your finger between them and metal :!: :shock: (Well, they can give you a nasty nip anyway. :grin: )
     
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  9. I've been meaning to get one of these for a while, thanks for the reminder Jeff.

    How hard are they to clean and how do you go about it, and how much did you pay for yours?

    Cheers
     
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  10. At jaycar, there are rare earth nickel-coated magnets that are the diameter of a small button, sold in packs of 4, for about $8 or $9 a pack. I just clean the sump plug, dab a bit of quick-grip or tarzan grip on the magnet and plug, assemble it as per adhesive instructions (not necessary, but is good for insurance, expecially with ferrous sumps), and once mostly set, reassemble.
    Especially important in transmissions and axles (extended service intervals), but I do this to every car or bike I work on (Helps to ensure the oil pickup is not too close to the sump plug, for obvious reasons).
    Wipe with a clean cloth every service, and you've done a little bit to ensure a slightly longer lasting engine.
     
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  11. Toss that mesh filter. Paper elements filter to a much higher level and are cheap. I bet half your oil problem was the filter.
    The stuff you want a filter to pick up is so fine, it shouldn't be able to be cleaned out of a filtration media easily.

    Regards, Andrew.
     
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  12. That's the opposite of what the SS mesh filter makers say....

    Mind you, I think the paper element is able to trap small rubbish in the paper itself, not just stop it getting though the holes. In other words, I sorta agree with you, Andrew.

    Cheers

    Trevor G
     
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  13. There is no paper filter available for the TTR as far as I know.

    Good oil often is fine. My TTR has worked hard and still runs beautifully. When I did a top end rebuild at 20,000km, the only thing it really needed was a valve lap and new stem seals - neither of which have anything to do with oil - but all mechanical parts looked very, very happy. I put in the next oversize piston after a hone just because it was all apart.
     
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  14. I'm talking about "with the naked eye."

    Have seen plenty of grey aluminium flecks in a number of different oil-lubed products, from 2 stroke gearboxes (no combustion to pollute it) to shock units with non-anodized bodies. I mean so much grey that it changed the colour of the oil to grey!

    Every diesel I have ever owned goes dark black within a 1000 km of a fresh oil and filter change. That is the result of carbonaceous combustion by-products.

    Leave the oil in a petrol engined vehicle for long enough and you can get the same - black coloured oil due to carbonaceous combustion by-products.

    Mind you, our petrol engined citroen keeps its synthetic oil a light honey colour on the dipstick even after 20,000 km.

    Cheers

    Trevor G
     
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  15. Should have a look at oil under a microscope, or better yet an electron microscope, it's fascinating stuff. Carbon deposits will certainly blacken an oil in a diesel (or a petrol engine that's running like crap) - but small metal particles are often the cause. This is why cars with effective filters (like your Citroen) don't have the oil turn to black. Even more noticeable if you fit an aftermarket oil filter to an older car - same engine, same brand/type of oil - but a huge difference in oil colour after xx,xxx kms.

    For metal to appear silver/grey it usually has to be greater than around 30 micrometres - coincidentally about the size of the largest holes in the average paper oil filter. So no surprise to find silvery bits in unfiltered gearboxes or shocks, but if you seen them in sump oil it's not good.
     
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  16. I have one of these magnetic sump plugs that is standard on the RSV Rotax motors. Usually after a oil change, all I have to do is wipe away a little metallic greyish build up that covers the magnetic area.

    I have heard stories from the Aprilia Forums that this little magnet has captured a very small piece of metal, that upon further indication was a little piece of a cam chain link that was about to let go. It notified the mechanic to check into it further and saved the owner thousands of bucks.

    I don't know why they aren't standard on all motorbikes. :?:
     
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  17. They are standard on the gearbox plug on the RS as well

    must be a rotax thing
     
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  18. I think 2nd gen SVs have them too..

    I'm trying to find out the size my 02 sv650s uses, then I'll be ordering it..
     
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  19. An update on this plug use.

    I put a new magnetic plug in the hornet immeadiatly after the 12k service on 31/1/08 and did Oxley and another putty run as well as commuting and changed my oil and filter yesterday at 15k and inspected the magnetic sump plug.

    It had some mettallic "grease" type substance on the tip and it was enough to coat the tip of you index fingerprint.

    Very fine, almost graphite like.

    So the plug is picking up metals in the oil that bypasses the filter, but in this case I suspect it is so fine that no damage will occur if it is dispersed throughout the 3.6l of oil. (although this was only after 3000k's)

    Bad thing is as I was putting it back, I felt it "let go" and I carefully unwound it out to find it just about sheared off (lucky boy) Funny thing was I was not putting that much torque on it I guess with the magnet running through the centre of the plug thins the side of the (probably) alloy walls (but I am HUGE :LOL: )..................so in the bin and back to the OEM plug for the time being.

    Have to think about another style of magnetic plug for the hornet as the one in the TTR is "solid" with the tip only as a magnet.

    Jeff
     
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  20. Jeff old buddy,
    I use some large rare earth metal magnets that we have here at work on the bottom of the standard sump bolt and one on the oil filter itself. Turns the standard parts very magnetic. I will try and scrounge up a couple for ya.
    K
     
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