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You failed, more money please!

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Guest, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. Went for my open class today and failed, yeh FAILED, cos in my controlled stop i locked the rear brake and skidded a few metres. Didnt sway didnt fall over, just a straight lined smooth skid.

    Mind you it was on that red super super smooth and slippery bitumen cr@p they lay everywhere over here in WA, and it was wet. Nearly punched the guy in the face, friggin jerkoff. Tried it on the way home from 120 on normal bitumen and what ya know no lock ups.

    And yes now i have to pay another $25 to go for it again, what a scam and a half. You fail once for a BS reason (the guy doesnt like anyone) and you have to pay again and wait another month to go for it again. Gee cant see that system being abusedby the smug little pr!cks.

    :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

    Ahwell ill get some more practice on how to stop, while riding my bike everywhere i go by myself. :LOL: :LOL:
  2. I don't know what it's like in WA, but I know that in NSW it was always considered a "given" that you never passed first time; they ALWAYS failed you for something, just to rub in the fact that they have the power and you don't.
    Don't sweat it, go away and practice more and do the best damn stop that he's ever seen next time. He won't say that he noticed, but he will and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing it.
  3. Controlled stop, eh? I think our license test can let you lock both wheels if you can still get under 40 points and not fall off. And basically the only way you would get 40 points is if you didn't stop at all.

    Too easy down here, too easy.
  5. So when you do get your open class licence and go out on the road on your own and you encounter some of this wet, red bitumen that is "everywhere" you will fail to stop and ride into the path of a semi/tractor/road roller/747/elephant or whatever else is thrown at you on the day???

    Ever thought that they may not have given you your licence because you failed to do what was required in the test?
    If you are $25 poorer and alive as opposed to $25 richer and dead...................

    Not trying to rub it in, just asking a question.....
  6. Interesting posts......In victoria the test if you call it that is very basic. It does give an indication though of some aspects of rider skill. In the braking component of the MLST test here you can skid. The offical instruction is to "stop the motorcycle as quickly as possible. You will not loose points if you skid and remain stopped until I tell you to move". Personally when I conduct the test here in Victoria (yes I must be a jerk off 8) ) I conduct the test according to the rules. That means that people have fluked a pass, and I am in the position where legally I have to sign off on their licence, when I know that their attitude and/or skill level means it is just a matter of time...... I cant speak for testers in other states, only what I know here in Victoria. Every instructor I know conducts themselves in a professional manner. To fail someone because some think it gives us a power rush is certainly not the case 99% of the time. I have pulled people out of cyclone fences 30 meters away from where they are "to stop" because their braking is "that effective". The rider whom did this blamed me for the fact he couldnt stop in time, because "I had no idea". After failing his test he got back on his harley (he rode it to the test with what appeared to be his gf as a pillion) and he rode off. What was worse was this woman after seeing the rider could not stop in a blind fit, jumped on and rode off with him. Some people may fail due to braking distance, but this guy was amazing!!! I think his idea of emergency braking was to use engine braking!!! And yes he did not freeze, he was actually trying his best to stop, well in his eyes anyhow.

    All I am wanting to do is draw attention to the other side of the coin and say most testers are not personal as to how they do a job. As well as the fact that sometimes that also means we have to pass someone, when in reality we dont think they should.

  7. I agree that you need to be able react with the same reliabilty no matter what the situation, good point. I suppose that the issue is that you pay good money for what they claim to be 'rider training' which includes licencing. If you are doing it right in the practice, and stuff it up in the test, or vice versa, how is that demonstrating consistent application of the skill?

    It all comes back to the fact that the whole rider training system nation wide needs urgent attention.
  8. I guess that is the same as training to use the brakes effectively and to also say do emergency stops? How often after the training do you practise these skills? Or do you wait for an emergency??

  9. Interesting point that here in Victoria if you do fail your licence you go out & get back on your bike & ride home on your L's to try again another day!
  10. If the rules state that you can't skid, then you failed fair and square. If you lock the wheel then you weren't in control because that's exactly what you were trying not to do.

    It's only $25. Don't let pride get in the way of improvement. As a teacher I'd guess that Bike instructors would be the same in wanting the best results for their charges. If the instructor says it wasn't good enough then he obviously expects a higher standard. It's actually a complement because he thinks you're better than what you've shown him. My advice is this.... Take some critism from anyone in a position to give it. It's not a personal insult. It's simply the best way to help you ride better, ride safer and live longer. Nobody thinks you're a bad rider, but then Nobody's perfect.

    I love it when people pick the shit out of my riding cause it's well intentioed and it helps me improve.
  11. Funny you should say that Tony, myself and Mel were discussing this exact point today. As you know Ride-Tek ask students to fill out a questionnaire to determine the instructors performance regarding information delivery and skill demonstration and utilise it to improve. I graded Ride-Tek a 3/10 on course content. Not because what Ride-Tek do but the scope with which they must deliver the poor content that VicRoads say must be the standard.
    I believe that a lot of the material that was done on the licence test should be included on the Learner's permit, or perhaps on an intermediate grade of licence prior to getting the full licence. The full licence should then include further training, very much like the defensive rider course that Ride-Tek is going to start in the near future. My understanding is that the defensive rider course is going to include all that is required for the licence course together with some more in depth roadcraft and more riding skills such as increased cornering skills (chicanes) etc.
    I believe that perhaps this should be more like the standard required to get a full licence. I know in the four months that I've been on the road I would have benefited by being able to demonstrate earlier some of the skills that I learned today.
  12. Yeah he failed you, and he is the worst in the world. But if he was only doing his job, he had no choice. He must abide by the regulations. and unfortunately for you, you did what you werent supposed to do. At times like this when we feel humiliated and we can only blame someone else, we must take a deep breath, think about what would have happened to that instructor had he passed you when he shouldn't have, and say oh well, i'll be a little smarter next time and show them i can do it. It's only $25.00, less than a dollar a day over the month you have to wait. So put it behind you and have another crack. We have all failed something before and come back and done it again with success. Good luck mate..
  13. Tones, this is not meant as a dig at licence trainers or testers, and particulary not at the school your associated with, but why do they allow the facility that taught you to also test you, unlike car licences were you have to attend the RTA and do it all for a licenced tester?

    Would it be a better system if once completing the training to the instructors and learner riders satisfaction, that the learner was then tested by an idependent body?

    I didn't do my licence testing through the school your associated with, but I got the distinct impression at the place I did mine that "nobody" failed the licence test.
  14. in NSW you can lock and skid. You just had to come to a stop without dropping the bike in a certain distance.

    I braked way hard (was coming in to fast for the brake, over 40kph). Skidded, just managed to hold the bike up, she was at a 45 degree angle before I pulled her up.

    Bloke passed me, but gave me a lecture about braking within capabilities. Better to brake a little slower, than brake so hard you drop it.
  15. it's the same in NSW... you can fail again and again as long as it is within the six month validity period.
  16. Nobby - I didnt take it personally, just wanted to highlight another side to the job. I can understand that often testers etc can be targeted as they are the closest to target!

    I agree with your comments that it seems strange that instructors also test. It can also be that testers also train!!! There are moves to include a competency as you learn type of testing. That is to say whilst you are learning and you show you can do an element of the test say three times in a row then you have completed it etc...However the idea of "the test" in a formalised way is to see how people react under stress. Well that is what I am told. I think it also comes down to logistics as well. That is to have someone else come in to test someone is expensive if it is someone other than the instructor. To say test six people for their licences takes approx one hour. To have someone come in and work for an hour is expensive. For me if I am training a group that I will be later testing then my goal is to work with the people to improve their riding abilities. If I dont think they are ready for the test I suggest alternatives to them. Likewsie people may pass, but I suggest aditional training or alternatives before hitting the road etc.

    Other people come in as "test onlys" so they have not had any training from the tester, just the test and that is it. Other people can have the abilities but not exactly what you would call the ideal attitude. So for me I conduct the test as per "the book" but will comment and suggest how people can be better and safer riders.

    Last point is a "test" can be considered as a training aide as well!!!

    Cheers :D
  17. Its stupid, i know hes doing his job but he said i get two chances, only one was given, i did everything else absolutely perfect. I know that locking the brakes up is dangerous but it didnt even sway or anything and as i said i braked hard from 120 and pulled up fine.

    P!sses me off more cos the couple of weeks ago a mate went and got his and rode around the block once and the guy said thats all i need to see and passed him.

    I know how to ride it, ive been riding it for 6 months now rain, hail and shine and havnt stuffed up once (touch wood) its just stupid that it was a minor thing and its not even written anywhere that you cant lock it up. Anyway its not gonna stop me, i ride it everyday anyway with or without the licence. Thanx for all the replies i feel loved ahaha. 8)
  18. thats interesting.. when I did that on the practice runs he said it doesnt matter as long as I keep the bike upright when I stop :?
  19. There has always been options to obtain additional or advanced training to ride bikes, but I personally think its all about $$$$, most people can't afford the additional training I feel they just do what is required to pass a test.

    And I am guilty of not doing the License course, I just went and did the test only and passed with a score of 18, it wasn't money for me, it was the time. But I will be putting my name down for the Ridetek Defensive Rider Training because I think the more you learn to handle all situations the more likely you are to avoid coming off or killing yourself.

    If you also want further riding experiance, I would suggest going on every ride day, there is a lot of people that have good experiance and watching them helps you improve your skills. Ask people on the ride about anything and they will give you advise, even people behind you can suggest a better set-up for cournering etc. etc.

    So for all those who think the license test should be harder, maybe support the additional training being offered with 10% discount to netrider members and don't wait for VicRoads to make it part of license testing because I don't think that will happen.
  20. In adding to what vtrsteve said also ride in all conditions . Rain , wind ,cold on icy roads . Get a feel how the bike handles in all the different conditions.