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Yet another can of worms

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by hornet, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. I have been reading hansard from the NSW Parliament, with special reference to traffic black spots. Guess the common denominator?

    In all the ones I've read a black spot has been defined as a place where THE ROAD provides the risk, not the road users, (see this example, http://snipurl.com/j52o)

    So, why are there $100,000 cameras at black spots instead of the money being spent on FIXING the road problem???

    Sydney riders remember the infamous Miranda roundabout. Heaps of accidents there, for many years, and a renowned black spot. So what did they do? They removed the roundabout, put in lights, and suddenly, no accidents. The same motorists use it, at the same sorts of speeds. So why is it now no longer a black spot? Because the ROAD has been fixed.
  2. Paul, motorcycle politics is no place for logic now, shit, that would start to make life easy and there must be some bureaucrat (along with a shitload of road engineers) making too much money for things to get all logical....

    Also FIXING the road is not as good for revenue as a $100,000 camera is, but that might be the cynic in me talking too, after all, they're there for our "safety".
  3. Agreed, it is a bit of a Dorothy Dixer thread, but if they can read the same things that I do, it can only be because they don't WANT TO that the roads aren't fixed but we've got more cameras. Sigh, tired of them all, eh?
  4. NSW Government has a lot to answer for this. The problem is, they can just turn around and say "yeah but speed cameras save lives anyway" and the community doesn't argue with them.

    As has been posted before, the biggest rort of all is the cameras in the tunnel - NSW government has a policy only to place speed cameras in black spots (as you pointed out Paul, that is where the road proves dangerous, not the road users).

    The logical conclusion is, they engineered a brand new peice of road to be a black spot... either that, or they are revenue raising... I reckon the latter.

    Why someone in government hasn't lost their job for this is beyond me, especially for the comment : "Tunnels also present access difficulties for ambulance and emergency vehicles in the event of a crash, and speed cameras have a proven effect on reducing crashes," it said." which is severely misleading.
  5. Thanks Matt, you would think with 15 years industry experience I'd know how to express a URL, wouldn't you?!?!

    Sigh, retirement would beckon, if only I could afford it!
  6. Hornet, hornet, hornet...
    My boy, you are missing the most important point!
    Fixing roads COSTS the government money. Speed cameras MAKE the government money. It's a foregone conclusion.
  7. Like most governments they don't make money fixing roads, but I would love a speed camera business, think about the return on investment they get.
  8. The problem is in NSW the opposition is singing the same tune.

    People are getting so pissed off about these oppresive road rules, that if an oppossition actually opposed them they would waltz into power.
  9. :wink: You hit the nail on the head

    The problem is, politicians in general are sucked in by the false stats as well, and are afraid to challenge anything to do with road safety - If the road toll goes up, we need more cameras. If it goes down, that proves the cameras work. If the road toll goes down without cameras, put them in anyway to prevent future accidents.

    It would take a courageous and herioc opposition politican to end the mess, and you are right, he would win in a landslide.
  10. The thing that pisses me off about road stats is that they are no more then a staistical anomilly.

    Think about how many road trips are made in Australia every year. 8 million drivers, 10-20 trips a weeks, 52 weeks a year.

    It's not nice to say, but a few hundred deaths are all but inevatable and the numerical equivalent of zero.

    A variation in the number of even 50% could be put down to a blip in the statistics. To say a change of 10 20% means anything is just bullshit.
  11. The NSW Govt is so on the nose at the moment, all Peter Debenham would have to do is to PROMISE he will halt all new roll-outs of cameras and review current policy and he'd romp in, and we don't have an election till March '07!!!
  12. I think the issue here is also one of accountability. If the government fixes the road, and fatalaties decrease, then they'd be forced to admit that the casualties were the result of their poor road design. Alternatively they install a speed/red light camera, fatalaties may not decrease but chances are they'll book a number of drivers. They can then say that the cause of fatalities is that drivers are speeding/running red lights etc. totally absolving themselves of blame. This also gives them an excuse to install more cameras.
  13. .... and if the public squeals, they can say "Oh, we're using all the revenue for public health" as if that justifies it. They should be funding public health anyway!
  14. Here in Victoria, that conehead called Bracks was forced to shut down the network of greed cameras on the Western Ring Road due to inaccurate readings and was forced to pay back all fines issued by those cameras.

    Those cameras to date remian OFF. So off in fact that some of the cameras are still missing.

    Shame I can't recall the figures that were used by the morons in Spring Street.

    They say those cameras were important as they all saved lives. Now seeing as they have been inoperative for 12+ months the death toll from the WRR should be in its tens of thousands should it not?

    I heard that Police Minister Holding character state that there were xx deaths on the Westgate Bridge and that it warranted the installation of speed cameras.

    Unless is a well kept secret, there have been bugger all deaths on the Westgate Bridge. There have been however, several deaths on the Westgate Freeway, but there are no cameras on it.
    They constantly tell us that they have turned on all the cameras on the Geelong FWY too. I traveled to Geelong last week and was on the lookout for the cameras, I failed to find one.
    Maybe they think that if they lie enough people will start to believe them.

    The cameras on the bridge are a waste of tax payers dollars, they cause more traffic problems than they solve.

    It has me stuffed how these politicians feel that no one can safely travel over a bridge at a constant speed of 100km/h and that we all need to slow down 20km/h.
  15. from now on I think we should call them MANIPOLITICIANS!!
    They can manipulate the statics and twist them any way they want, to justify the fact that they are sponging money up through camera's instead of fixing dangerous sections of road. It bites.
  16. I live in Lidcombe, NSW...Parramatta Road between Strathfield and Parramatta is virtually unridable on, huge pot holes and big chunks of roads missing, in fact I don't think there's an even bit of seal on it....

    But will they fix it?...noooooo cuz there's a shiny new M4 with a toll on it running parrallel to the road, why fix a road when you can leave it totaly fcuked encouraging people to use the tolls.

    Same as the cross city tunnel eh, don't get me started on that!

    I reckon if I got the paperwork in order and ran for govt stating that my first move would be to cut politicians salaries and perks, and my 2nd be eleminating all revenue raising speed cameras, that I would have a very good chance of getting in :wink:
  17. Vic, I think a death did occur on the bridge a little while ago when a taxi that had pulled over to let a passenger vomit his guts out got rear ended.

    I dont recall but I dont think the offender was exceeding the speed limit and if that is the case then this death shouldnt count towards justification of placement of cameras upon the bridge.

  18. Yes they should but where will they get the funding from?
    Why not put up some more cameras!!!!!!!

  19. The problem with the westgate bridge is that the emergency lanes are only a half car width.
    Barely enough room for anyone to get out of the car without getting sideswiped.