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YAY Federal Guvmint

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Ktulu, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. Not bike related, but this resolution to a problem by the feds just makes me worry in general about the people we DO trust to introduce legislation for us and solve problems.

    Battle lines drawn over broadband

    THE Federal Government is planning a multimillion-dollar campaign to convince voters that broadband in regional Australia is not the disgrace that media mogul Rupert Murdoch says it is.

    The campaign is expected to begin within months as the Government seeks to improve its standing ahead of the election later this year.

    The plans come as Telstra continues its own war against the Government over regulation, with a political campaign aimed at highlighting the nation's lack of broadband investment.

    Telstra's public policy chief, Phil Burgess, has said Telstra will canvass its 1.65 million shareholders to increase pressure on the Government.

    Telstra has had the Liberal Party's pollster, Textor/Crosby, on its payroll for more than six months and last month sent pamphlets to 100,000 new shareholders urging them to "make a difference".

    A spokeswoman for the Communications Minister, Helen Coonan, said yesterday the Government expected to spend up to $5 million on the campaign, including advertising. "It is aimed at Australians in regional and remote areas," she said.

    About 90 per cent of households have access to broadband at speeds faster than 256 kilobits per second, according to KPMG.

    But only 40 per cent have access at speeds faster than 2 megabits per second. The slower speeds add more than five hours to the time it takes to download a standard TV-quality movie.

    Australia's average broadband speed is just over 1 megabit per second, ranking it 25th among OECD countries, according to a report from the Committee for Economic Development of Australia. Sweden tops the list with an average speed of more than 8 megabits per second.

    In November, Mr Murdoch called Australia's broadband speeds "a disgrace" and urged the Government to invest up to $12 billion to improve infrastructure. Media proprietor James Packer has also said the Government should invest more in broadband.

    Dr Burgess said last month that surveys by Crosby/Textor and others of shareholders' attitudes to regulation had shown broadband was a big issue.

    Telstra plans to take "Al Gore-type slide shows" around the country and set up an ambassador program where employees meet shareholders.

    But a Liberal Party backbencher, Cameron Thompson, said: "Having them parade around the country with some kind of slide show is like a wolf running a PR campaign around at grandma's house.

    "People are relying on government regulation to give some surety in a market where basic services need to be provided."

    But let me summarise for you:

    - Australia is coming 25th in the world's "Who has the bestest and fastest broadband" competition.
    - Problems include coverage and speed.
    - an estimated $12 billion would be well spent upgrading the infrastructure, as online markets, trading and entertainment increase exponentially.
    - the government's solution to this, is to INSTEAD spend $5 million on an advertising campaign: telling people that there isn't actually a problem.


    ... that's the solution? To tell people that everything is cool the way it is?

    Now it's not like we don't have the service at all. It's there etc.
    But we will continue to fall behind the rest of the world if the most powerful form of communication we have, is neglected like this.

    Blows my mind.

  2. My question is should people who choose to live in outer metro areas or in country towns, expect to have the same infrastructure that we enjoy in the big cities?

    In any event, as far as i can see there really should be no bitching and moaning from people in the country because there is a program called "Broadband Connect" which provides sattellite broadband hardware to people who can not get regular ADSL from Telstra. So people do have access to it if they want it, so whats the problem?
  3. It's more a quality issue.

    We are paying more money for a slower service compared with most 1st world countries.
  4. Noooooo, Australia behind the rest of the world? You've gotta be kidding.

    I know what your saying.

    At our farm out in the sticks we just got (maybe 2 months ago) the gummits Sat internet through Broadband Connect scheme. They arranged for an installer to come out. They provided a sat dish and modem at NO cost to us. THey also paid for the installation. We now own outright all the equipment they gave us. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

    The only limiting factor is that the highest we can go is 1.5megs speed. But this brings me back to my original point - should people in the country expect to get city quality internet service?

    You are quite right about the prices we are paying relative to the speeds we can get. but that is slowly changing. Look at what iiNet has done for the entire market. I have no doubt that without these second tier ISP's we'd still be on dialup from Telstra.
  5. What i find interesting is that the big noise makers are media vendors who are saying that the government should spend money to improve the infrastructure.
    Why? so they can sell content over it.
    If they want to sell the content why don't they spend the F#%^ing dollars?
    Once again the rich asking for handouts from the government it makes me F#%^ing sick
  6. Why not, farmers expect to get given millions in handouts because of a drought when they can't grow crops/feed livestock, yet the Gov't would do absolutely nothing if my business doing pool fences went under because of the drought would they.(animosity intended :evil: )

    Poor, poor farmers. Next time choose a business with less risk!
  7. Good spot falcon, the people moaning about this are the ones who stand to make the most money from it. Also smaller carriers are complaining so the guvment gets Telstra to do it and then they can come along and piggy back on the investment made. They love it, all the gains with no risk.

    You live in the bush therefore you get what we get FFS we don't get what they get. Subsidies like no ones business. :evil:
  8. You poor mistaken little man. The farmers of this country have spent many years working like real men to provide this country with the economic backbone it has. This country would have been nothing without its produce industry, and the results of this drought can be noticed everywhere. You don't think a loaf of bread was always $2, do you?
  9. Gotta love the big 2 supermarkets forcing our farmers to sell wheat and the bakers for baking the bread for next to nothing.

    Remember a lot of farms are not small family allotments like when my parents farmed, they are owned by large corporations.

    But hey farmers need to download p0rn fast as well! :p :p :p
  10. I think the question to ask is not "Should people in rural areas enjoy the same service as people in the city?" but "Should the people who provide our food suffer inferior service, or a severely limited choice of services?"

    No Australian farmers = lower quality food at higher prices. Sure, imports are cheaper now, but that's only because the importers have to undercut Australian growers.

    Even in suburban areas broadband services are below par compared to the rest of the world. Speeds above 1.5Mbit/s are only available where ADSL2 equipment has been installed in the exchange, and even then only homes which have their phone line connected directly to the exchange can benefit. In many areas homes aren't connected to the exchange, but to Remote Integrated Multiplexers (RIMs). ADSL2 equipment can't be installed in RIMs, so if you're on a RIM 1.5Mbit/s is your maximum speed. Also, RIMs have a limited number of ADSL ports, which is always lower than the number of lines connected to the RIM. If you miss out on a port on your RIM you have to wait until either more ports are installed, or an existing user discontinues their service. Even if there are plenty of free ports on the next RIM (which might be only a couple of streets away), you can't use them, because you can't change RIMs.

    If the government must spend this $5million I'd prefer they spend it looking at how to make the biggest improvement in the shortest time, not on some bullshit campaign telling us that everything is great when it clearly isn't.
  11. ^This is, I think, the real point.
    A press release saying "It could be fast and better value, but we don't believe it is a good idea to make that investment at this time - so the current situation will continue" is FREE.

    $5 mil? ****, throw it at Medicare or something. Instead of bullshit.

    The people calling for the upgrade, who you say will profit from this [yes, probably - but only because there is a demand for service and a growing market {ie. the users want it better too}] are the same people who will make a cool $5mil in advertising when the gov dances around the issue at hand.
  12. key word: would have been. i.e. the past.

    farming is now a mocu smaller part of the australian economy than you claim. notw it is on par with the tertiary education system in terms of the "economic backbone".

    "The Australian economy is dominated by its services sector (68% of GDP), yet it is the agricultural and mining sectors (8% of GDP combined) that account for 65% of its exports..etcetc

    perhaps you meant mining?

    Wa for example
    finance, insurance, property and business services have increased their share of Western Australia's State output, while the shares of public administration and defence, manufacturing, wholesale and retail trade, and agriculture have declined over the period 1977-78 to 1998-99. These changes indicate the potential for the Western Australian economy to generate new strengths and undergo significant structural change over the longer term.


    I don't have australian figures on me but you are living in the past man...

    sources: http://www.tiac.wa.gov.au//drivers/drivers-05.html
    and the glorious wikipedia
  13. And because I DO choose to live outside a capital city why should i have less choices than you?? MY money is the same, i have the same requirements, (for arguments sake) so why should i be presented with a lower set of options simply based on my Geographic location??

    Are you saying that the population outside the Big cities should expect 2nd class treatment??? We already got that for health care, fuel prices, food, and just about anything else you care to imagine. Can i please have something the same price and options as the big city folk.....

    "Y'all come back now"
  14. No, I don't eat bread, and I'm pretty sure the Werribee South Vege growers get better Broadband than I do! If you choose to run a farm in the middle of nowhere, then accept the pitfalls of that existance. It's not like the services are being taken away from them, they never had them available. It's like the people who move near an airport and then complain about the noise from the planes. That's how it was when you moved there and it was acceptable to you then, what changed?

    Should the people who work on oil rigs suffer inferior service, or a severely limited choice of services? Hell no, let's build them a shopping centre, a brothel, and a TAB so they can get by as they might at home on the mainland :roll: They choose where they work, just like the farmers.
  15. Sure you can, but you then accept that that BIG property that cost you $200k in Kyneton is actually worth $3million in the 'big city', so you mortgage just went up $2.8million to go with the cheap petrol and groceries.

    If you want the affordable property, then you accept the good with the bad.
  16. Umm for people on an oil rig you got the order wrong
    " Hell no, let's build them a brothel, a shopping centre, and a TAB"

    Much better.
  17. Well i rent (~$900/month).. in the centre of town... no big block. i friend of mine does have 7 acres though.... 5 minutes out of town an he's on 33.3K dial up.....can't get 56K and forget broadband

    just because house prices are small does not mean i should be treated as a 2nd class citizen.

    What it was reversed??? what if because you pay high prices for houses etc you shouldn't get higher services?? The cities do use a LOT more recources (power, water etc) than the country) so because of this added infrastrucutre needed you don't get broadband and other services..... would that suit you??
  18. OK, but I'm going to to out on a limb here and assume that you do eat something, which has to be grown somewhere.

    Lets expand on the argument that "There are less services in remote areas so we shouldn't try to improve services because people in those areas should just accept things as they are."

    Keep in mind that most people who live and work on farms have lived in those areas their entire lives. Some may have chosen to move from an area with lots of services to an area with less services, but most didn't - the services simply didn't exist.

    All Australian capital cities, with the exception of Canberra, were established prior to the invention of the telephone. Going by the logic of the argument above, Sydney, Melbourne, Hobart, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and Darwin should not have telephone services. After all, they weren't there when people moved into those cities, so they should just accept life without it.

    Do I expect remote areas to have full access to the same range of services available in big cities? No. But I'm certainly against any argument that says "It's their fault they live there, so let them suffer and don't even try to improve things."

    Like I said, this $5million would be better spent on looking at the best and most efficient ways to improve services. Not just to rural areas, but all over Australia, including suburban areas on RIMs.
    Who knows - maybe if the government and telcos could actually work together, rather than bickering, finger pointing, and wasting our money on bullshit advertising.

    Maybe improving broadband in rural areas will prove to be impossible, or so prohibitively expensive that it simply isn't worthwhile. But then again, maybe it isn't. Maybe there is a way to do it, even if it means that people in rural areas have to pay higher prices for some broadband services, compared to people in urban areas. Personally, I think that would be a much better option than "let 'em suffer - don't even look at ways to improve things."

    Edit: Off topic - that was my 100th post. Yay me. :)
  19. I think you are aguing moot points here. firstly the cities use more power and water, true. perhaps the fact that 95% of australians live in the cities might account for that.

    but really rural services cost more because it costs more to get them out into the country. Optical fibre is supremely expensive, a house in the bush might cost the company 100s for each hookup. in effect you're probably gettign subsidised by the cityfolk as it is.
    Maybe ideoligically it would be nice to say everybody should have access to exactly the same facilities, but realistically its not going to happen (just like you aren't going to get a large shopping centre in the middle of a farm paddock - it might be 'unfair' but money talks).
  20. yes cities use more water etc... which is why Melb is on Stage 3 restrictions and the resat of the state is stage 4 and beyond... now that makes sense Mr Bracks

    as for services....yes your right the cities use more, they do subsidise the country...... but how abour some equality, for some things, we don't mind paying a bit more but surely the staples in life could at least be the same price.

    for example... we have a local abatoir here in Kyneton..... but meat is still a lot more expensive than melbourne...... It is actually cheaper (when all added up and when buying several items) to drive to Melbourne...buy at the markets and drive home. Loaf of bread is higher cost too. I would rather not go on about how hard it is here because it is rather good.... just a few things really stick out as downright stupid and unfair for anyone living outside the city.

    Perhaps we should force some of these Politicians to work for a year from a rural residence...... i'm sure broadband would be availalbe so fast the cableguys would have friction burns!!

    Also solve this issue for me. i know a telephone/cable layer. he knows of several phone exchanges around the countryside that ARE capable of broadband, That is all the required hardware has been installed. BUT Telstra will not activiate them untill there is a certain % of the local residents requesting a broadband connection. So the country is doubly screwed!!

    I don't know what other atates are like but VIC has it's Head in the sand and ar$e in the air. As long as Melbourne is OK stuff the rest of us. Well it feels like that at times

    AS you mentioned it may cost an increased amount to make a connection....granted... but once a connection exists why am i not able to access the same services as you can in the city?? the connection is there, it all works.... but because i'm in the country....... "Computer says no"