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Yamaha zeal 250, stalling and problem with warm starting

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by n4spd, Aug 12, 2013.

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  1. hi everyone i got this bike only last week, it was serviced on Friday, but i still have two problem that are both confusing to me:

    1, it stalled twice on uphill while changing gear, i think i was shifting gear down, and the motor lost power. with my last bike if the bike would stall it would at least let me know that it is not happy, this one is different, it just lost power, at around 3000-4000 rev, i grapped clutch level, and gave it a bit of oil at no vail. is this normal?

    2, bike had problem with warm start. this has happned 4 times and i have only ridden it about 6-7 times. it had been warmed up for 5 min before riding, then i would go somewhere that is about 5-10 km from home, do some shoping, and come back, start the bike, it does not start!

    this morning 5km from home i had both problem at the same time, it stalled and then, it won't start. i tried 20 times ,with the choke on or off, it seems it doesn't have to do with the choke, as i press the start button it doesn't do anything, and sometimes the motor did start but would rev to 500 and dropped off, and it sounded like as if it is cold, with some rattling noise as if something fell into the engine.

    i finally got it started by immediatly openning some throttle togive it some gas, and keep it reving above 2000 for a while before going back home. this is what i saw people do with some very old cars!

    what was wrong, or what i did wrong?

    cold start works fine, the the service on friday included spark plug change. bike is 1999, 56,000km.

    the warm start problem can not be repeated, i tried after i arrived home and it works fine again, it seems to happen ramdonly.
  2. check all your electrical connections, particularly leads you might have a split and it is shorting and your loosing spark.

    Intermittent problems are a biatch to diagnose.
  3. hi thanks i will check this afternoon.

    about the warm start, my description was incorrect, when i pushstart button, it does make a noise which is supposed to be followed by the engine starts, but the engine isn't doing anything, and sometime the engine will start, but will go off in about 2 seconds.
  4. Could it be the carbs leaking? I had all sorts of problems with the engine because of the carbs. Random stalling, hard to start, getting it to idle without keeping the revs up etc. I got a crazy quote to have the carbs reconditioned and ended up trading it in on my step up bike.

    If you're handy I would check to see if you can see any leaks coming from the carbs. Are you getting a bit of smoke on start up or even oily fluid spitting out of the exhaust when cold?
  5. HI Grrila, thanks for your reply, it starts cold no problem, no smoke but i will watch closely. was your bike having probem with cold start or warm start?
  6. i found out it could be my gear shifting skill that is stalling the bike. i did some test ride on a steep slope and was able to repeat this issue, i found the rev will drop for about 1000 once i grap the clutch level to change gear, with my usual way i would roll in the throttle slowly ( as was taught in riding school for a smooth gear shift. but on this bike it is not smooth if i do it this way, and that has confused me a bit earlier), in this case the bike is reving at around 2500 while going uphill and if i shift gear slowing it will drop to 1500 or even lower, then stall the bike. i then tried to shift gear as fast as i can and keep the rev over 3000 while going uphill and it works!

    another thing i found is that once it is stalled, i will have a hard time restarting it, usually i will need to wait for 5 minutes or more, and start it by rolling throttle immediately after hitting the start button. this only happens after bike is stalled, not if it was turned off with kill swtich, so i think there is some reason behind this but i will just avoid stalling it.

    no the bike definately has a problem, it is not about the gear shifting, on a long uphill it will loose power without me doing anything. i need to start a new thread as my descriptions has not been accurate in this thread.
  7. Sounds like you are running out of power due to revving the bike too low and then shifting up.

    If the bike is losing power you need to shift down a gear. This will increase the revs not lower them as you describe. Alternatively if you are shifting down it sounds like your gear change is taking too long and the bike runs out of speed.

    It is only a 250 and you need to keep the revs up a bit.

    You haven't posted where you live. If it is in Melbourne or Sydney try getting yourself to a learner practice session so someone can see what you are doing.
  8. You say it was serviced on Friday. Take it back and tell them to do it properly. But ask nicely.
  9. compression test... this would be a good start
  10. It dropped revs when he changed gear on a hill. I suspect more than mechanical fault.

    At 3000-4000 revs I am beginning to rev the cr@p out of my engine but I suspect this in't the case on a 250 zeal. However I have no idea what the normal rev range is for these bikes. What revs does the bike red line at, @n4spd? On a hill you should probably be doing at least half that.
  11. Mate you are changing gear way to early on the zeal. redline is at 14k from memory so keeping at 5-6k aint going to hurt it. But! Your symptoms sound very similar to what was happening with me. Once it bogged down she would really struggle to get the revs back up. At times I would have to clutch it to get the revs up and hopefully it cough itself back to life. If i was a betting man I would say fueling problem. Before thinking carbs, maybe check your fuel filter and lines if you have a bit of mech knowledge. Also check your vac lines and air box for any air leaks.
    Just one last question. Have you got any leaks when parked up or excessive fuel smell?
  12. Rough rule of thumb is whatever the bike revs to you will probably ride it the 25% -75% of max range.

    So if bike red lines at 14000 then you should be keeping it in the 4000-10000 range and probably changing down when it gets as low as 4000 and not chamnging up till around 7000.

    Like I said this is only a rough rule of thumb and I don't specifically know the zeal.

    But I would try riding it like this before you start playing with mechanicals. Also under revving could lead to fouling plugs which could also make it hard to start, as could stalling it.
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