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Yamaha Stryker LED Indicator Problem

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by CSS stryker, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. I replaced my stock rear lights with LEDs.

    Wiring all correct, lights work apart from Hyperflashing of the indicators.
    I tried to replace the indicator flash unit with a non-sensing unit, but found that there is no standard 2 or 3 wire unit on the bike. It appears it is controlled by some larger integrated unit.

    So I decided to install load resistors across each LED. The front indicators still Hyperflashed, while the rear ones stopped working all together.



    I purchased a standard 12v lamp and tried wiring that across the LED. Same problem.

    I then removed the LED from the circuit all together and just hung the 12v lamp I purchased on the indicator circuit. Still the same issue.

    Can anyone give me some ideas of what the heck is going on!

    As soon as I connect the stock indicators back in, without the LEDs, all works perfectly again
     
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  2. You seem to be asking the same question in three different places.
    Here is an answer from the other "LED light issues" thread.
    ----
    Is the flasher unit the old type (bi-metal strip), or a new type (electronic)?
    The bi-metal strip heats while current flows, then bends and breaks contact, then cools and straightens while the circuit is open.
    Then it goes back to straight and closes the circuit so current flows again. Hence click...clack...click...clack
    The LED lights don't take enough current to heat the bimetal strip, so the light stays permanently on.

    With the electronic flasher units there is a timer circuit controlling a relay, timing is independant of load.

    Flasher units are either 2 terminal or three terminal, check yours and see if Repco or Autobahn or similar have an electronic one that has the same terminal configuration and is of a suitable physical size to replace your stock one.
     
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  3. A quick Google found me this:
    Load equalizer/or flasher modules - Yamaha Star Stryker Motorcycle Forum

    Sounds like the later model Strykers have a 5V arrangement for the factory LED indicators and not the more typical 12V.
    This may be at the root of your problems. You'd need to check what voltage the LEDs you have are intended for and make sure you have the right voltage flasher unit too.
     
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  4. Hi Peter, thanks for the replies. Hadn't thought about it being a 5v factory LED. I'm not sure how I can confirm that, as I can't find a way of opening the indicator assy.
    Assuming it is, can I still use a 12vLED unit somehow?
    Also, if the stock indicator is a LED, then I would assume the flasher would be a non-sensing type already. So why would it still hyperflash? Or would that be due to the incorrect voltages maybe?
     
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  6. You'll need to get a copy of the circuit diagram for the Stryker to confirm if they are 5v LED's or not.
    They'll be driven by the ECU, like a USB supply.
    If that's the case then you won't be able to run standard LED indicators.
    That would also probably not create the hyper flash that you've got.

    Easiest way would be to get a multimeter and check the voltage being supplied to one of the indicators.
    If they are running standard 12v then you need to confirm that the load resistors have been wired in correctly.
    They need to be wired in series with the new LED's.
    Did you wire them in parallel ? That would actually reduce the resistance that you flasher unit is sensing and thus increase the flash rate.
     
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  7. I reckon Stever42 might be on to something. It sounds like they may not use a flasher unit at all, but instead be driven from a timer in the ECU and have a 5V supply. I hadn't heard of such a setup before, but it would take cost and complexity out of making the bike. We'll probably see more of this as newer bikes are released.
    I'm out of my depth on this stuff, without being able to put hands and meter on to understand how it works on these Strykers I'm really only guessing what you shoud do next.
     
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  8. Im getting confused now. when i put the LEDs on the bike they flash but really fast (hyperflash).
    I just tried the LEDs on a 5v power supply and they dont light up at all. So if thats the case, you would assume the LEDs and the bike are 12V. (Back to square 1)
    But i did connect a 12v light straight onto the indicator wire on the bike at one stage and that didnt light up at all. Which is really confusing me, (and would infer its a 5V supply on the bike).
    Its difficult to measure the output voltage,(I think i tried at one point, and think it was around 6v), as it keeps 'flashing' up and down as per the flashing unit. Maybe i need to try that again and see.
    I always thought load resistors had to be in parallel? I can also try them in series if you think its worth a try.

    Any other thoughts would be appreciated.
     
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  9. don't much about your particular flasher setup,but when it comes to electronics, to increase load (=more current) the resistor need to be in parallel.
     
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  10. That sounds 100% arse-about.
     
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  11. I may sound like it but it is the truth....ahemmm let me get my engineers voice on...Ohms Law (V=I x R)states that for any given voltage (in this case 12v or 5v) if the resistance of the circuit is reduced (by having a parallel resistor) the circuit current will increase. So we have now determined that the current has gone up right? now how does this relate to load? electrical load is basically the power consumed by the circuit. Power is calculated by multiplying voltage times the current (P=V x I)and we know the voltage is steady (12v or 5v) and the current has gone up so therefore the power(or load, if you prefer) has gone up.
     
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  12. Yeah, sorry, I've got a reasonable grasp on basic circuitry, the part I'm struggling with is why the resistor has to be parallel in relation to the OP's problem.

    The reason a mechanical flasher unit "hyper-flashes" when using LEDs is due to the decreased resistance of the LED vs incandescent globe causing greater current, effectively 'supercharging' the bi-metallic strip.

    So why would you put the resistor in parallel, essentially in a resistance-reducing position? It would just compound the problem.
     
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  13. typically the resistance of the LED is much higher than incandescent bulb (LED= low power consumption= high resistance) and this is why a parallel resistor is needed to simulate the load of the incandescent bulb.
    What I don't know is how the flasher works, but I have seen it many of times on cars where one indicator bulb is blown (effectively reducing the load) and this causes hyperflashing.
     
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  14. Because it's a shunt resistor, it is a low value resistor and is connected as a load across the supply to pull a higher current.
    The higher current is then enough to work the flasher can at a normal rate.

    A resistor in series would reduce the current drawn, as when you use a resistor to limit current if you want to connect a normal LED to a 12V supply. In this instance it's a current limiting resistor and it has a high value.
     
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  15. That is when you have the newer electonic flasher unit. I believe this is meant to happen and is to indicate that one of the globes is blown.
    On the old bi-metal switch flashers, the flash rate would slow right down or even stop when a globe was blown (due to the lower current drawn).
     
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  16. OK, I feel like I'm learning. I think my understanding is correct, but possibly seems muddled because we are considering two different scenarios at the same time...

    You would use this arrangement with a modern electronic flasher unit, yeh?

    And this would be relevant if the bike has the old bi-metal strip type, correct?

    I'm relating this all back to the old transformers we used in high school. They had a bi-metal strip as a fuse. They would trip immediately if the circuit didn't have enough resistance, we always needed to have a incandescent globe or something in the circuit.
     
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  17. No, you have it backwards. If you try and run LED lights from the old bi-metal strip type flasher, they don't pull enough current to work it, so you use a shunt resistor to simulate the load the old globes would have presented.




    Yes, if you had a short circuit or close too it, you drew too much current and could overheat the transformer, hence the bi-metal stip safety breaker.
     
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  18. Just to add to the conversation (confusion) :D, LED (when considered as an electronic component) has a low resistance and requires a limiting resistor of high value just like pwbike mentioned. but in general speak LED 'bulb' has high resistance as the unit has a built- in limiting resistors added for the application required (ie 12v)
     
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  19. Hi CSS strykerCSS stryker,
    All those replies would be a bit confusing.

    If you could get a multimeter to check the voltage at any of the indicators that would be good.
    Were you using an analogue meter or digital ?
    On the analogue ( needle ) then you'd need to try and see its highest movement point.
    With a digital you should be able to set it to show the highest voltage detected.
    It would be best to test this in the original wiring and indicator set up but if that's too hard ( or annoying ) then disconnect as many as you can so that the flasher rate will be reduced.

    What is the value of the resistors ? I'm guessing very low < 10r.
    I won't get into the debate re resistance and impedance of the LED's vs globes but I do think you should be adding the resistor in series to each indicator. If it's not too much trouble do try it.
     
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