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Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Doch, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. It's only Feb, it's only the second month of the year and yet we are seeing way to many riders killed, 3 this week alone. Does anyone have an answer? What do we have to do?
    We all know the usual stories- SMIDSY, speed, inattention, conditions but then there a the ones that there's no understanding of how or why.
    This morning I heard some more details of a fatality that happened locally earlier this week When it first happened I thought it was another SMIDSY but now I don't know how it happened.
    The local news reported that police have remanded a man in custody for allegedly driving head on into a bike and killing the rider.
    The road in question is in good condition, dead straight and flat for over a kilometer with pastures on either side but no side verge to speak of. The road runs Nth Sth with a slight down hill.
    Most things that happen to us on the any roads at least we may have had a chance to do something about to save ourselves but how do we protect ourselves es from this type of behaviour.
    Just in: in the last 30 mins a rider has been involved in a serious accident at a local intersection, the same intersection that has only been reopened in the last few days after a multi million dollar upgrade by vicroads. The upgrades were brought about because of there being to many serious accidents at this intersection.
    FFS please , please be careful out there the pricks really are out to get us.

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  2. I suspect devices are probably the biggest new cause: texting and driving seems to be at the root of most of the negligent driving I see around the place.

    I think other things like drinking and so on have been probably sorted as much as they can, and safety gear similarly. Certainly some roads are still pretty shocking, but they're far better than they used to be. Meth might be an issue in some cases, but I blame devices.

    I also think (happy to be corrected) that fatalities as a proportion of population or road hours are falling and continue to fall. I mean, one is too many, but I don't think we're seeing a crisis level of *increase*.

    For us as riders, though, eternal vigilance is the price of life and limb: be aware, and give suspect cars a very wide berth. Protect your space, don't tailgate, ride defensively.
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  3. Sure there is not alot we can in a head on situation, but I came across the Citilink incident last nite and sure enough it did not look good.
    But from my observations it looked like he hit it the ute pretty hard.
    I have to admit I have been avoiding the tulla on the way home as I am find it extremely tight to get threw the traffic.
    But as I went home that way last nite I would say I was surprise how many guys were moving pretty quick threw it!

    I don't ride slow bikes nor are they small (cbr1100xx/m109r) and I can throw them around and move on them when I want.
    To the point I would say are we the cause, thinking we are immortal and pushing it a little too much?
  4. Single vehicle bike accident may certainly be from that, pushing a bit hard on the curves etc, but multiple vehicles involving a bike are (I would think) mostly from other car errors, SMIDSY, etc.Not all obviosuly, but most.
  5. I read about that incident, and the guy being charged. didn't realise it was that significant an allegation and I guess we'll have to see how the court determines.
    Out to get us? I hope not, but it's probably fair to say that an ever greater percentage of drivers are operating with fried brains and their heads full of volatile chemicals. That's the world we are now living in. And most of the rest of them have got their eyes glued to their phones.
    Perhaps some of us haven't noticed that the road environment has just recently got a whole lot more dangerous, not just for us but for pedestrians ands cyclists too.
    Got to up our road craft game a whole lot if we want to survive.
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  6. Remember 7 deaths are attributed to unlicensed riders and bike thieves
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  7. Yeah, I believe the stats in general show that roughly 50% of fatalities are 'unriders'. Just by not being one we already halve the apparent risk.
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  8. #8 Doch, Feb 25, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
    I didn't want to mention the meth situation as I thought it might look as though I'm on some sort of crusade however the information I received about the head on mentioned drug charges.
    I do community work that brings me face to face with some meth addicts and I can describe what the attitude from them is in one word , scary. Absolutely no sense of remorse just determination to complete whatever mission they are on and anything that is caught up in their path is simply collateral damage, no problem.
    There is no way of being vigilant for these people. I suppose it might be as bravus said protect your space and ride defensively.
  9. Even without the Ice thing I hate being on the road just before 7am and around 830am. Way to many crazy aggressive idiots driving like there lives depended on not being late for work.Just dialing it back to a more relaxed state while driving would help this result.
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  10. Agreed and, I can only go on what I have heard, most were killed in chase / race situations which I have personally excluded from my own thoughts, still leaves a lot of deaths that could / should not have happened.
    I would be interested, not because I'm a ghoul, to see the the comparison between '15 , '16 on serious injuries.
  11. I think it's the Muslims!
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  12. I'm firmly in the "sh!t happens" camp. You will never be able to save everyone.
    Instead of worrying about others dying, do what you can to look after yourself.
    Motorcyclists may be a tight knit group on the road, but it's your arse in your saddle, all you can do is ride your best and encourage others to do the same.
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  13. Why? I think if you can successfully answer that then you'll have solved many of problems that face every road user every day.

    There is a certain amount of inevitability for traffic incidents and therefore deaths to occur. However, I still think there is far too much emphasis on the road toll as something we as a population need to worry about.

    Of the 12 (is it still 12) motorcycle fatalities, it would appear that roughly half were people who were quite blatantly disobeying the law anyway, so more laws and regulations wouldn't prevent them. So what can we do about the others? Well the answer sounds simple but it isn't. More training and education for ALL road users. Actually teach people how to use and control the vehicles they are in charge of, not just how to steer them. Make pedestrians more aware of the consequences of their actions or inactions.

    But in all honesty, I see the government, various agencies and the media carrying on about the road toll every day of the week. Yet the reality is that comparatively few people die on the roads each year. If suicide or deaths from preventable diseases got the same attention then far more lives could potentially be saved.
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  14. One of this week's casualties was fairly well known to me. Very highly skilled but known to be a bit reckless in the old school way.
    I suppose after 30 years it caught up with him. The world out there is changing and we have to evolve the way we handle it
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  15. I agree with the Devices being a major issue , you see it every day. But there's always been dickheads putting on make up, reading, eating and drinking whilst driving with poor focus on the road. I also thing that inattention in general is on the increase. I think most riders would classify themselves as enthusiasts, they WANT to ride, whereas I think a significant number of drivers are driving for convenience not for the pleasure of it. If you are not interested in something you don't focus. :(

    Theres also some riders who push just that little bit too far all the time. I'd like to see a full break down of motorcycling accidents one day. broken down to who's at fault, single or multi vehicle, type of bike, licence held or not. On road or not etc.
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  16. Love the way you can find a bright side to look at, smee. ;)
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  17. #17 smee, Feb 27, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    Fukkem, it's those tossbags, a clearing house for Darwin's theory, who unfortunately have brought down the wrath of the politicians, the police and the anti motorcycling knuckledraggers like that TWAT on 3AW and of course that bastion of motorcycling hatred the TAC and their head non-riding non-knowledgeable muppet Sam Cockfield.
    Do I feel sympathy for them? their families maybe but not them.
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  18. The statistics look bad on the surface, however it's too short to determine if there's anything significant going on.

    Why more this year than last? Something as simple as the differences in weather patterns for the same period as last year could affect how many people are out riding, or driving. How hard people are partying, etc... The drop in Aussie dollar could contribute to how many more people are staying in Aus for holidays instead of going overseas thus affecting the amount of trafic we have, or how many tourists we have visiting us increasing. The drop in petrol prices.... increase in drugs... There are so many factors we simply can't track that could be at play for such a small time period I'm cautious not to jump to conclusions.

    No doubt it's been a shocking start - but I think it's too soon to conclude that "something" has increased that is causing these accidents to the point that something needs to be done about it. If something could be identified as significantly contributing to an increase in deaths, sure - but the dangers in thinking something can be identified are what governments make with knee jerk reactions that benefit no one and normally fall back to the easy BS explanation of 'speed' being a contributing factor so lower the speed zones.

    I couldn't believe how many speed zones have been changed recently when I went out riding, including a stretch of highway I haven't been on before around Yea - down to 80kph (complete with overtaking zones - better highway conditions that I normally travel on)... apparently because they've had some accidents. This is the dangers we face.

    In SA and NSW - I see that they're experimenting with different ideas such as widening the middle of the road to have two lines to separate oncoming vehicles further apart where in Vic they seem to want to lower the roads speed limits.

    I don't say this to undermine the fatalities we've had, but rather that emotion and/or knee jerk reactions can have a negative affect that won't solve the situation but rather distract attention to other insignificant conclusions - especially with this current mentality by our authorities that 'Speed' is the #1 enemy and cause. By all means let's study these accidents, but take time to determine whether or not there is a epidemic of some sorts, or whether it's just part of the natural random changes that occurs with statistics.
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  19. #19 Pugsly, Feb 27, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2016
    Good. Was that as a result of an accident, or the bikes owner beating the shit out of them?

    This is a very valid point.

    As most of us know, there are lies, damn lies and statistic. The number of deaths are low enough (but not as low as we'd like) that each should be able to be individually studied to ascertain the causation. Quoting facts like 100% of those killed being male is statistically insignificant when the vast majority of riders are male.

    We're all sick to death of the speed skills mantra, and looking at the TACs own stats from 2013 speed appears not to be the biggest factor.

    But again, we're hampered by lack of data. At the risk of sounding callous, more information is needed about every fatality - in detail.

    Once that information is collected, and analysed, then, only then will we have the information to answer OPs question.
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  20. I wrote this a while back, All you hear is the Police are writing a report to the Coroner, I don't see why there cannot be an annual complied report that the riding public could read with the facts about fatal accidents similar to what Pilots of light planes get,published by CASA to highlight actual dangers that have taken a life.Be a wake up call to some, and educate the rest to real world events.Not just the authoritarian PR stunts we get after every long weekend.
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