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Why I'm not a proud Aussie

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by philmydang, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. I can't stand hearing people wanking on and on about how their country is better than all the rest. Americans are particularly annoying in that regard but the ones who piss me off the most are New Zealanders. - If it was that great, there wouldn't be 800,000 of you living here as economic refugees, so STFU!

    I agree with what that guy says about there being no "best" country. Mind you, there are some countries that could vie with each other for the title of 'Biggest Shithole', e.g. pretty much anywhere in central Africa, a lot of places in eastern Europe and any country ending in "stan".
  2. I don't know what countries the author has been too - but I daresay if he'd actually worked in them, and more importantly had to live on what people in those countries get paid, he might not have such a naive view of the world.

    Quality of life most definitely varies between countries, which is why so many people try to emigrate to Australia and so few Aussies emigrate to places like Afghanistan. Thinking you're just like someone in a third world country because you spent a week in a backpackers once or communicated with someone via twitter just makes you a giant douche.
  3. nope....some dude having a whinge and getting paid for it

    if we didn't police the comings and goings of people in our country's how could we hope to keep track of criminals....what's to stop millions of people going to the country with the best lifestyle ...destroying it....then moving onto the next one.....what's to stop the massive amount of drugs coming and going from country to country...

    ...whilst there are douchebags that give Australians a bad name....we honestly don't ask much beside's foreigner's that decide to move here be accepting of our values and traditions and that we run things a certain way here.....yes there is racist pricks amongst us that confuse patriotism with racism but that's the case with a lot of countries.

    yeah we can piss and moan about the aboriginals being here first...but think...if we weren't letting foreigners in there would be more time/resource's/manpower/money available to help the aboriginals solve their own personal issue's and gain more recognition in our society.
  4. Don't think the article is trying to say anything about border security.

    Most of what said is pretty obvious, but what he doesn't get is that it's fun and part of the human condition to be proud of where you are from. Most of us know there's places that are better in some ways to live. Give me an empanada over a meat pie any day. Give me a Leffe over a VB. Give me Switzerlands education. Give me anywhere but here's beer and cigarette prices. But also give me cricket over baseball, give me thongs and shorts at Christmas, give me the smell of the Australian bush. Give me G'day.

    I'll talk up the good things any day. Why? Because it's fun to be from somewhere, it's fun to have pride. And most of us understand this. We know we're not the best at everything but we are the best at somethings.
  5. I think he's gay and lost.
  6. must not forget, without national pride the olympics would be pretty boring.
  7. "pwfoof" ... is the sound of merlot over keyboard :ROFLMAO:
  8. Do you know how much in the way of resources/manpower/money you actually get as a foreigner coming to Australia? For the vast majority of new immigrants (anyone other than those getting visas on humanitarian grounds, basically), the sum total of government largesse is zip, nada, nothing, big fat zero.

    In theory you can access the public health system but you're unlikely to need it much because, to get a visa, you've had to pass a reasonably thorough medical. Your kids can use the public education system, just like those of all the native born Aussies. You can probably get a health care card entitling you to a range of fairly minimal discounts on a range of services and utilities. A few odds and sods but, in the general scheme of things, not much.

    On the other side of the ledger, there is no dole for two years. That means you either have to have a job available to you when you arrive (so presumably you've got a pretty marketable skillset and you'll be contributing financially to your adopted country via the tax system) or you need to bring enough in the way of savings to survive until such time as you get one. A wad of savings which will end up with Australian landlords, motor traders, white goods suppliers and all the other businesses which sell the material stuff required to set up a new life.

    So don't give those of us who've been there shit about immigrants in general being a drain on the country. It's bollocks.
  9. Yeah, but it is precisely those who come/came here as "refugees" (and the vast majority were in no way refugees at all) who are the problem. There are large numbers of people from mostly Islamic countries who came here claiming persecution, then set about living the exact same life they had lived previously, all at the expense of the taxpayer.
    My wife's sister-in-law's father is a classic example: came from Lebanon as a (fake) refugee and has never paid a dollar in taxes in the nearly 40 years he has been here. The scumbag even works for cash at a fruit market, yet is on the dole and has lived in a Housing Commission property since day one! He still can't even speak English properly, FFS.

    I am an immigrant myself. I had a job arranged here before I even arrived in the country, so it pisses me off to see others just scamming the native-born Australians out of their own money.

    BTW, we are letting a lot of Africans into the country these days and I guarantee you that not a small percentage of them will be bringing HIV along for the ride. Guess who pays for their treatment?
  10. Based on the official information, in 2012/13 there is a planned total migrant intake of 190,000. Of this, 13,750 places are visas granted on humanitarian grounds. That's 7% of the migrant total, which includes (and I quote):
    So, at the very worst 7% of migrants may initially be a net drain on the nation's resources. In a reality not defined by the Daily Telegraph and radio 2GB it will be much less.

    Personally I've got better things to do than get aerated over a proportion of a very small percentage of the total migrant intake who might be scammers.

    In the general scheme of things, the extent of resources spent on migrants is vanishingly small.
  11. #13 mattb, Jan 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    The article was quite superficial. If it had an argument then it was a straw man one, which assumed a dumb patriotism and condemned it (not hard to do). Terms like 'proud' and 'great' were his terms of reference which invited that crude image, an image of self-assertion and competition. But what about a different vocabulary, for example 'love of country'. Man doesn't live by bread alone, people are nourished by concepts, including concepts that give them roots, such as family, place, history, culture, and nation - concepts of belonging in particular historical ways, which story the self and create community. Unthinking critics like this one fail to see the degree to which we are embodied and historical, the degree to which that goes deep, and forms what the philosopher, Simone Weil, in talking of our "need for roots", called "needs of the soul". The author, and many more sophisticated versions of him, would have us live in a disembodied, ahistorical world of universals. It's vital, of course, that we balance our sense of humans with universality - a respect (and even love) our common humanity which we can see in each other regardless of differences - I doubt that author could satisfactorily articulate why - but it's vital, I believe, that we respect what makes us different, particular, individual. Some of us - indeed most of us - not only respect it, but love it. Being Australian is deeply who I am. When I lived overseas for a time (working as the sole foreigner alongside locals, not partying) I discovered how much it is in my pores, in my body, in my sense of self in the world, and how much the landscape that I come from informs the rhythms of my speech and even of rhythm and turns of my thinking (I tried to articulate it a few years ago via motorcycling though I might not put it the same way these days).

    What is so wonderful and interesting about other places and people is that those other people are embodied in their space to, and love it, and give it a distinct character as well as receiving their character from the soil and landscape.
  12. *sigh* ....my comments were over the top and off-topic, I apologise for those who have been offended by them and would like to think this thread could be put back on topic and not into a debate about immigration....and - my bad.
  13. They are pretty boring anyway.

    Is it the next olympics that'll have underwater left handed table tennis as a demonstration sport?;)
  14. I agree....better to be a good world citizen than be a raciest prick or thinking your somehow superior to the country your visiting.....

    If im in another country then ill try to enjoy myself, do whatever the locals are doing, enjoy the country and not continually compare it to home...afterall each country has its good stuff.........

    Over the top and overt patriotism bordering on being a douche is annoying...........from experience, Americans do this best............first hand experience with a few of my American relo's.
  15. hey pat , i hear you even though i am aussie
    this country has a double std.
    we are under british rule and yet we treat
    them like afghans in regard to immigration.
    we are part of the commonwealth and i think
    that includes the UK
  16. Feels like if I like lamb and BBQ's I'm a bad person.....

    Sheeesh - the article was thought provoking but nothing new.....
  17. well said Patb
  18. #20 jd, Jan 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    Not since 1986. That's when the Australia Act removed any possibility of the UK affecting Australian laws or policies.
    We also haven't been a member of the Commonwealth since Federation (1901) - we're a dominion.

    If you want to talk about double standards how about the fact most Australians know more about the history of the USA than they do their own country - yet are quick to have a go at immigrants for not understanding trivial things about the country. (That's not directed at you BTW Phil, just a general comment).[/quote]