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Why I don't want a Supersport bike

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by cuvy, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. (or how i learned to stop worrying and love the thumper)

    Ok, let me just get that asbestos suit on, right, on nice and tight, so here goes.

    Right, so first off, this is just my thoughts on supersport bikes. I realise a lot of people think differently, and I'm not saying you're wrong, just that these are my thoughts on the matter. by all means, disagree with me to your heart's content.

    Anyway, I went for a ride with a mate who's just got himself an '05 CBR6. Very nice, very shiney and all that. He gave me a go on it in a nice section of sweepers, and boy, what can i say, it ripped!

    Cruising at 80 in second gear, open the throttle and just like that, doing 120! and that was only getting to around 13k - still had another 1-1.5k on the revs before the power drops off. Fantastic acceleration, rock solid, and very nice through the sweepers. the instant power available was addictive, and certainly plastered a grin across my face.

    After getting back on my bike, it obviously felt a little sluggish (600 single with restrictive pipe vs 600 inline-4 supersport...). Initially i was thinking "wow, i liked that accelleration, wish i had it on this bike", but then i realised, after that short ride, i was riding my bike differently. I was gentler on the throttle, sitting in lower rev ranges than i normally do. Sure, my bike is never going to accellerate as fast as a CBR6, but when the throttle's all the way open and the revs are high, it's got plenty of kick to it!

    That got me thinking... every bike (or engine) has it's own power band, where you're getting max torque out of it. No matter how much accelleration your bike has got, it's getting that last bit of it out that's where the fun lies. To me, it's in this range where the fun's to be had. Nothing like fanging it full throttle, getting all the power and working the engine hard.

    Now, I ride like this most days. My bike, under 80kmh, gets usable power from 2.5k, and goes all the way up to about 6k before it starts to sound a little unhealthy. A lot of people who ride my bike putter around under 4k, which is where you get decent torque, but don't stress the engine too much. Me? i usually ride between 4k and 6k, which is working the engine hard, and it's a load of fun!

    Now, doing the same on a CBR6, up to 80kmh, i wouldn't leave first gear, and even doing above legal highway speeds, i'd still be in second gear.

    Now, this isn't to say i didn't enjoy riding the CBR6 - it was an absolute blast! If i had the luxury of riding track days (and a seperate bike for it) i'd get an inline-4 supersport in an instant. On a track, so long as you've got the skills, you can fang around as fast as you want, keeping in that oh-so-sweet power range.



    But, for day to day riding, or in fact any road riding at legal speeds, the engine is just not in the 'fun range'. I'd much prefer a single or twin with low gearing to boost accelleration (at the expense of top speed). Top speed of 140kmh? so what, doesn't really matter here in aus. I know of plenty of motards that will keep up with a CBR6 up till around 80kmh, and v-twins would do similar.

    I'm not bagging inline-4's in general here, just supersports for (legal speeds) road use. I realise there are plenty of large inline-4s which have more bottom end, or riders who don't want to be fanging it constantly (touring, commuting etc). However, it seems that a lot of people who buy 600+ supersports do so because they want to ride fast and hard, and to me this is where i don't quite get it. The 'hard and fast' part for me means riding near the limit of the engine, which isn't realistic for a supersport.

    Those who reguarly ride at 150+ kmh are excused. (go and ride ahead of me and detect some radars, please)

    So there's my thoughts. Hopefully i've made some sense, but bear with me if i haven't. It's well past my bedtime, on a school night no less. What does everyone else think?

    Phil
     
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  2. Go the thumpers!

    I was thinking about this earlier today actually. What makes some bikes more enjoyable then others?

    Small 125cc 2-strokes are often cited as fun machines, and anyone who's owned a big thumper generally loves them. V-twins are fairly cultish too, though to a lesser extent.

    As you said, the ability to use all the power on the road, and ride to limit all the time is a big part of this.
    However, I think the amount of "fun" to be had out of the engine is directly proportional to its smoothness. Rough as guts bikes, with peaky engines, or lots of vibration are the ones you really love to ride.

    There's just a certain... feeling. What's duller than a GN250? A CB250- it performs the same, but its much smoother.
    The new Triumph Bonnieville is a great example. With 62hp, its the most powerfull Bonnie ever in the models 40 year history. Yet its also the dullest. It's just much smoother and easy to ride- a better bike mabye, but boring.

    I'm not saying rough bikes are necessarily better. After anything more than 1/2 an hour on the SZR, the vibes, and rotten riding position would gladly have me swap it for a CB250.
    A multi cylinder/non-stroker machine would be much more practical and easy to live with in every way.
    If you want the motorcycle equivalent of a Camry, you would definetly look in this direction

    But when the SZR is pulling at full throttle out of a tight bend, the thumping mille shaking all over the road, I know a multi just wouldn't compare.

    For pure fun, A quirky bike is a good bike.
     
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  3. I had more fun on the new DRZ 400 Motard bike I recently test rode than any sports bike I've ridden lately.
    It would suit me for day to day riding perfectly.
    I'm not that interested in top speed, I just want to beat cars off the lights and get thru the traffic in as fun a way as possible.
    If I had a supersport bike I'd only lose my licence in no time at all anyway.
    If it goes super fast that's how I'd ride it.
    I would love a Hayabusa, but I have enough sanity left to know that, really, I should not buy one.
     
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  4. Oh I meant to say, my mate Nathan is a bike mech, he's got a beaut SRX 600 that's he made into a Streetfighter.
    Small double headlights. Belly pan. Small deflector shield, solo seat with cowling. Tiny LED indicators and an LED tail light. Under the frame exhaust pipe. Painted gloss black. Looks very cool. :cool:
     
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  5. Great post cuvy

    After test riding an XJR1300 and getting into the fun zone, I definitely see the attraction of them, but doubt that I'd be alive too long - just way too much temptation for me combined with many factors you can't control.

    And a question for the in-line four guys and gals - have they ridden anything else to compare? Or did they always want that style of bike and will then progressively move up from a 600 to a 900/1000/1100.
     
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  6. I just loooove the smoothness and perfection of 4-inlines :grin: Can't beat japanese engineering :)

    Besides, Kawasaki does not make v-twin sports. Read the editorial on newest 2wheels... vtwin is dead :p

    I would like, however, a detuned sports inline-4 engine. One that is more biased to midrange power.
     
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  7. V-twin is dead? That would be a very sad day indeed.

    When V-twins die, then every single good thing that cuvy describes about the best of both worlds (low down usable grunt, yet with high-end kick) will die with it.

    If cuvy likes the thumper, and likes the top-end power of a 600cc super-sport, then he needs to get himself onto a nice big V-twin and then decide.

    Still, for usable lazy around-town grunt, this is why many people buy the 1000cc hyper-sports. I can potter around town in 2500-4000rpm quite happily, and leave any car behind at the lights (unless they're trying to race me), and it's still heaps of fun.

    Of course the real fun happens at >8Krpm, but it's all about accepting reality. You can have just as much fun grunting around in the low-end of the torque curve on a big I4/V2, as you can revving the nuts off it in the upper end of the curve.

    It's the 600cc super-sports that need to wringed out to get the most out of them.
     
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  8. performance? don't you know guys buy supersports just because they look the best \:D/

    what does the twowheels article say? :shock:
     
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  9. I agree with you guys :)

    I've had a sports bike for 18months, and they tell me that it gets it's power above ten grand.. tell me is the term cos i very rarely go there :) A friend of mine rode it and on her first ride she went faster than i've ever been or wanted to go.

    So i bought another bike.. probably just as fast, just has more torque, easier to ride, and is happy putting around at my speed.

    Its great fun having a fast sports bike, but it's horses for courses :) I ride because i enjoy it, not because i want to go fast :)
     
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  10. Cuvy I'm not going to disagree with you. In fact what you've said is exactly the reason that my Guzzi V-Twin is more fun to ride than either of my in-line 4's (although both 4's are tuned for midrange).

    The Guzzi is a raw, visceral, sensual feel it in your bones riding experience. My jap 4's are competant, smooth and bland by comparison.

    Want jap reliability and v-twin experience... think about a VTR1000 or SV1000S ;)
     
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  11. Each bike has it's owen character.

    For track days, I want a Supersport. So easy to ride quick. Useable power, enough to go quick, not too much to scare the pants of you.

    For road riding, the 1000cc bikes are easy. Just ask Jeff after the weekend. The litre bikes pick up in almost any gear at any speed. For overtaking, a small wind on of the throttle and you are past. I actually ride the 1000cc slower than the 600 as it the speed is more controllable.

    V Twins and singles are awesome bikes for commuting, beating the daily grind into work and, if you have the right suspension and tyres, for blasting through the twisties. For outright speed they'd lose out, but on total time they'd be there or thereabouts.

    So, decice what profile fits you. Do you do lots of track days, hill blasting, commuting, weigh up what you enjoy and make a decision based on that. And, if you win Tatt's, buy a bike for every occasion!
     
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  12. until you reach that 100km mark, your fingers and feet are sore from the vibration, and your back is sore from your pillion pounding you screaming that she wants to get orf right now! :) Been there done that!

    In my opinion as well, the multis are much better for noise as well - them thumpers (esp. the motos on stock pipes) are much too loud for general use that doesn't involve vast acres of bush in the back of nowhere.
     
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  13. Hello Hornet 900! 100 horses harnessed between 0 and 85kmh in first gear when you've downgeared it like mine, a fairly butch upright seating position that puts you well above the traffic and offers a top view in the twisties, and a good linear spread of power through the range.

    It's a beauty of a streetbike, a real hooligan special and a half decent stunter, and does well in the twisties too. I'm imagining the suspension's way too soft for track use though. We'll find out soon ;)
     
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  14. It had to do with lack of development etc. They cited aprilia and ducati as an example.

    Of course I think vtwin cruisers will always be there :roll:
     
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  15. spot on loz that is why I swapped from the blade cause I was just riding around too fast (no willpower) but I can still have fun on the hornet went ok in the spurs on saturday but as it is more midrange it is a bit easier to keep to the speed limits but still have fun :LOL:
    I reckon they would go alright at the track just might wear a bit a alloy of the pegs is all :eek: but thats no biggie and if you do get down there let me know how they go
    Mick
     
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  16. Great post cuvy, definately leaning towards a twin/single myself for the same reason. A four-cylinder 250 is a hell of a lot of fun because you can run the thing out to peak rpm through several gears - if I tried that on a 600/1000 my licence probably wouldn't last long (if I didn't crash it first). Still wouldn't mind a big parallel-4 for touring, but for commuting and fun on public roads I'd personally much rather have a less powerful engine and use every last kw :grin:.
     
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  17. Well im hapy to say that after some more tweeking on the FJR yesterday im even more inpressed with the way it handles and moves, both in a straight line and in corners. But as much as it is a very comphy bike for long haul and twoup, the inline 4 just dont do it for me anymore.

    In the past i've always had inline 4's
    CB750
    CB900
    1100 katana
    Gpz's
    CBR1000 etc etc etc

    But all in all the VTR is by far the best one to ride for the pure enjoyment, and feeling you get from the Vtwin :twisted: and that is why it will be with me for a very long time
    :p
     
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  18. Great post. something ive been thinking bout latelty too actually. spending a weekend on the Sachs again reminded me of how much I lurve singles. late next year, im gonna get a KLR 650 for around town and update the sports bike for fun. different beasts for different things but both sensational fun. Thumper= wheel stands galore :dance:
     
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  19. well im on a R6 now, i have no problems with power. For city riding i just stay in 3rd and 4th gears and sit around 6k rpm.

    Ive been contemplating switching to a 05 speed tripple but i just feel comfortable on a sports bike, bit more aggresive riding. It just feels so wierd sitting up.

    But I just love the noise a v-twin makes - rode a Cagiva raptor a couple of weekends ago and theres power everywhere... a bike that small and a litre V-twin cant complain too much.
     
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  20. Lots of comments about singles, Twins and I4's, but what about the uncommon middle ground of the V4, used to be heaps popular.

    The V4s are a great motor, really only in VFR's now, but soon to emerge in the new Aprillia I think by 2008 (see latest two wheels mag).

    The V4's are somewhere between the I4 & VTs and it's a great feel to have all the poke & torque at the same time and that sound. If you haven't ridden a modern V4, it something that you should try.

    Just my 20cents...

    And yes I ride an I4!
     
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