Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Why Honda has kept on Winning

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' at netrider.net.au started by rc36, Jun 7, 2005.

  1. I thought it might be interesting to examine why it is that Honda has had such a dominance over Grand Prix racing over the last few years, and an anecdote from my own experience might help.

    I have a friend in Sydney who is an ex-GP racer (rode 500cc for Suzuki years ago). He has maintained a strong connection with the Suzuki team and corresponds on a daily basis with members of the team.

    Not long after Honda brought out the V5 I was at his shop and conversation turned, as it always does, to GP racing. This is what he told me.

    When Honda knew that the formula was going to change, their R&D Department heads got together and briefed their team on what was needed and design paramaters. Honda's R&D team, by the way, numbers some 360 people.

    This team was split into 6 separate teams, each briefed to go away and develop a 4 stroke Grand Prix bike. After a period of time they reported back to the bosses with their findings. Each team had explored their own ideas of what sort of bike would be needed to win under the new formula and each had evaluated their results accordingly.

    Now, the amazing thing here was that, each team had not only designed a bike, computer modelled it and done all the technical, theoretical evaluation, but each team had actually BUILT a bike and TESTED it before reporting back.

    So the R&D bosses ended up with 6 entirely different designs, fully tested and evaluated, to choose from when deciding the path they were going to take in the new formula.

    My friend said to me "Until the other manufacturers get THAT serious about Grand prix racing, they can't hope to beat Honda."



    Scary stuff, isn't it?
     
     Top
  2. That's right.

    However, informed people still say that the RCV is still the best and fastest (lap-time wise) of the current crop of GP bikes.

    It takes more than just a bike, as Mr Rossi has demonstrated; he's winning on an inferior bike through sheer rider talent and application.

    The point of my post was not to compare results so much as to indicate the level of committment that Honda has to the sport and to show that that level of committment has paid off to the detriment of the other manufacturers who have been unwilling/unable to commit to the same degree.

    I would LOVE to see the other manufacturers spend what Honda spend and develop some more innovative bikes.
     
     Top
  3. Can we get Mr Rossi to go to Suzuki next :D

    ie. Win GP's -> sell more bikes -> employ better R & D teams :)

    I agree having the capital to afford large R&D teams improves products and can garantee better results. Its almost cyclic and fairly simple logic, but not in this country. :shock:
     
     Top
  4. Maybe Mr Rossi should be available to each GP team in turn????
     
     Top
  5. rc36,

    This was something that was considered back in the early 90's - seriously.... The plan was to move the GP champ to another team the following year for the purposes of further development. Obviously, this doid not go far for salary reasons.

    Although, it may not be a bad idea to see Rossi on Suzuki next year. If he can make a Yamaha win, he can do it on anything. JUST SO LONG as Rossi is released from his current contract at the end of the season, not the 1st of January. Just imagine how dominenant Yamaha would have been if they had an extra 3 to 4 months of testing and development with Rossi....
     
     Top
  6. Yeh that WAS a pretty rude move by Honda, I admit
    It was the LETTER of the law, but hardly the spirit of it.
     
     Top
  7. Of course, otherwise Mr Rossi wouldn't have insisted that his contract with Yamaha included Mr Burgess.

    Gardner, Doohan, Rossi; all three have had Burgess in their corner, do I need to say more???
     
     Top
  8. Apart from Rossi's almost unbelievable talent, IMHO the key thing about both MotoGP and F1 is that money wins.

    To some extent that's true in all racing, but not to the extent in these two "peak" classes. You can argue that is how it should be at that pointy end of racing. Whereas MotoGP is still worth watching it's only due to a great rider on a nots great bike racing against not so great riders on better bikes. (for now). In F1 for too long it's been the better drivers in the richest teams, and the only way you could win is by having the perfect pitstop at the best time, but guess who bought the best pit crew?. (Boooooorrriiing) Same goes for cars, the V8 supercars and their round at bathurst... oh look, a holden V8, a ford, a holden... ooo another ford.....boooorrring... , the old multi-class bathurst and tourers was much more interesting, with battles within battles within each class, and sometimes between the different classes

    I don't have pay TV, so getting to watch any more than delayed showings of someone elses version of a highlight is impossible, but I much prefer to watch superbikes and supersports, the naked bike series etc, it's a far more interesting series to watch. As it's less about who can buy the race win, more about the guy on top of the bike and the conditions on the day.

    JJ
     
     Top
  9. Mate you are right on the money, right down the line. I absolutely agree.
    Variety and competition is what makes it interesting, and don't even get me started about artificially contrived race results based on who has the best pit crew, not who's the best driver/rider!!!!
     
     Top
  10. Question about money invloved in MotoGP - what kind of money do the staff earn? Obviously rossi gets nicely paid, as would the team boss, but what about the engineers etc?
     
     Top
  11. I think you have as much chance of finding that out as you have of flying to the moon unassisted!!
     
     Top
  12. Agreed, but sometimes it's WHERE you spend the money, not how much. Yamaha took the decision to spend it on Rossi and Burgess. And they got the results they looking for.
    Look at Ducati in WSB. They took the decision to spend it on the the series organisers, and what do you know? Championship. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
    Flamini rewrites the rules to suit.
    (I know, I know, it's more complicated than that, but there IS a germ of truth in it!).
    It's all about using what you've got in the most effective way. Right now Honda can't decide which rider to put it's full backing behind and the confusion is killing them.
     
     Top
  13. did you know that honda spends more on motogp cam development than ducati spends on its entire racing- (wsbk-ama-motogp included).
     
     Top
  14. Nope, but I'm not surprised!
     
     Top
  15. You have got to wonder about Biaggi. How is it that he is suddenly up the front at his home grand prix???

    So far this season he has blamed the bike. So with all Honda's development, money and personnel, they still cannot put a bike on the grid that the rider can use to win??

    Hasn't Honda got the famous Irv Kanamoto in their corner? Isn't Irv as good as Jeremy?

    At the post race conference, Biaggi said that the bike is now good. What do you think are the chances that at the next round he is struggling again?
     
     Top
  16. Nah, Biaggi's getting old now & has lost his edge.

    What Honda really needs is some new blood.
     
     Top
  17. there are 2 reasons Honda got where it is. Money and Burgess.

    I tip that without Burgess they will be like Ferrari. Good when they get a good rider and team manager. Otherwise struggling to realise their potential.

    We are already seeing that.
     
     Top
  18. Bloody Oath!

    Here's a quick little interview with the man, from www.rossifiles.com It doesn't quote a basis or reporter so I can't guarantee it's all true.

     
     Top