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why don't honda make CBR/r 250s anymore?

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by josh909, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. one of the more meaningful conversations on the weekend revolved around why don't honda make the CBR / CBRR 250s anymore? there's a pretty guaranteed market in countries that place restrictions on learners so wouldn't it make sense? i know lots of new riders want to buy something cheap(ish) in anticipation of eventually upgrading, but i'm sure there would be a lot of people that would buy new if they could.

  2. Don't take this as gospel, but I seem to remember a change in the Japanese licensing structure back in the mid-90's made it much easier for people to get onto bigger bikes, causing the arse to fall out of the demand for four-cylinder four-stroke 250's.

    If you think about it, this would've caused the factories to dance a jig. From a manufacturing perspective, a BabyBlade is just as complicated to make as a full-size FireBlade... there are two cams with 16 lobes to grind up, a cylinder head with 16 valves to install, a crank with nine journals on which to get the clearances right, an extruded/cast aluminium frame to weld up in both cases. Both bikes contain a similar number of components, requiring a similar number of fasteners to hold them together.

    The marginal cost of the extra 30kg of materials the big bike contains aside. the 900cc Blade and the 250cc Blade cost the factory the same to produce/ However, being bigger and more powerful, the FireBlade can sell for a lot more money than a BabyBlade. The profit margin on the big bike is fatter, making it the more sensible proposition for the factory to produce.
  3. im sort of guessing here so some one may tell me just how wrong I am, but I think there are not allot of countries that have a restricted period like au with the power restrictions so 250s are just not popular in most countries hence the reason there are not allot to choose if your after new
  4. I agree with all of that. However what about taking into consideration engine technology, Size of engine, electrics, suspension, brakes (bigger discs x2, x2 calipers w/more potsetc), wheels, tyres, gearbox, clutches. I think you'll find that just in componentry a fireblade will cost much more than a baby blade to produce. IMO anyhow.
  5. I think the answer probably lies in economics and marketing rather than engineering. Manufacturers like to keep up a flow of new models, and even the tremendously popular ones are subject to facelifts and upgrades on a regular basis.

    Honda, in particular, is well known for "moving on" from aven some of their most popular concept models for no other reason that a need to be perceived as "progressing"

    I agree that they are great little jiggers and it's hard to see what Honda could build that would be better than them, but, that's progress, I guess.
  6. Provided you're committing to buy 20,000 of them at a time, an intricate four-piston brake caliper can be surprisingly cheap, probably cheaper than an older design of two-piston sliding-pin caliper you're only buying 5,000 of.

    I'd be extremely surprised if the difference in total production costs (components, labour, energy) was more than, say, 10%. Contrast that against the fact that the BabyBlade used to sell for ten grand at a time when the FireBlade used to cost sixteen grand
  7. As Phanoongy and IK said...high production cost (compared to manageable sales-price = smallish margins) and very limited sales numbers.
    AUS is a tiny market, EC and US set the rules. None of them (apart from a few States of the US, AFAIK) have 250-rules, but rather LAM-style or fixed-horsepower classifications. A few hundred bikes per year for AUS don't justify production lines (and even that market is shrinking due to more states adopting the LAMs scheme, with Tassie being the latest? to join up).

    Personally... good-riddance to the bloody things (incl. RGV/RS250/even Acrosses and ZZR's and all other screampot-250s) as Learner bikes !!
    LAMs has also goofed big-time by including DRZ400s/ XR650s etc....all bikes that have certain "sharp" edges to them, a visciousness that doesn't belong into Learner-hands.
    Don't get me wrong...I like 'em, as I like most bikes for one or another reason, but in beginner's hands...no.
    A 30-40hp-limited 400/500cc (4-stroke) would be a far wiser choice, more user-friendly, not as likely to "buck-off" the un-practised/ un-initiated.
    A safer choice by design. A more appropriate formula to actually learn-to-ride rather than try-to-warp. Easier to control and just as much fun...albeit in another way than a 250-screamer.
  8. Fair Enough. It was just the way i looked at it. But as a few people have pointed out, my way of considering it (and lack of technical/engineering knowledge) is probably wrong.
  9. oops, doubled-up :shock: :shock:
  10. I agree with that, but I havea problem in that what bikes are there that meet that criteria??

    If there aren't any, which maker is going to bother to build a model like that especially to cater for a small market like our's?

    I'm not looking for difficulties here, I'm just wondering how could you achieve that?

    Maybe a "restricted" larger capacity bike in the mould of the Hyosung 650 which can be ridden by learners and then de-restricted once their "P" plate time is finished???
  11. There is a number of models of all the main players in the EC and US which are pretty close, EC-markets have a 34hp class, restricted GS500/F650Beemers/600Hornets/Bandits etc. with and without fairings, the new CBF500/600/Transalp are available as 34hp variants and many more.

    Only problem would be to get them through ADR's, a waste of $ for such a small market as AUS to compliance, as different indicators etc. have to be found, typically stupid ADR-crap.
    Until such time that LAMs will be the general standard and 250s are out as an L-bike we sadly won't see that stuff here, I guess....
  12. interesting topic because in the british mag "two", it states that they are selling new cbr125r which we don't have here. and it says that these bikes are "currently selling very well".

    cbr125r is a single cylinder though, selling for 2349 pounds
  13. They do still make CBRR 250cc and 150cc.

    My brother just bought a brand new CBRR150cc in Hong Kong. They do have CBRR250cc as well.

    The matter is the dealer in here not import them in Australia! and they can sell the old CBR/CBRR more expensive!
  14. Are you sure about the 250RR still being produced? I'd be inclined to say that you're incorrect here because the dealers have nothing to do with it anymore. Most of the 250RR's in AUS are grey imports anyway so why would we not see anything post 1998? (or whenever it was they stopped making them... I can't remember the year).
  15. Have you tried to buy 20,000? I must say, you seem to know a lot about everything.
  16. Actually it's probably a good thing the CBR250RR is no longer being made... then we just have to wait for the across to stop production, and the ZZR/GPX to stop as well.

    And with falling sales around the world I wouldn't be surprised if they all do.

    Then we might get a LAMS system in Victoria too :)
  17. What's the comparison between prices of second-hand 250s in NSW and in Vic? I would have thought that with the LAMS systems here, they should be cheaper because you can actually buy a "bigger" bike for around the same money?
  18. if they introduce lams here.. I'll be stocking up on GS500 bits :) I was told they went up in price as soon as LAMS was introduced in Sydney...
  19. Yep, they certainly did!!

    As did the prices on some other bikes that qualified too.
  20. Not everything, only the topics on which I speak up.

    If you've got something concrete to challenge me with, go right ahead. Otherwise...