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Why do riders go down?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by gix750, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. From reading the rider down post I see a lot of riders come down because of gravel over the road, usually on a bend. Now I am not disputing the fact. I was wandering what are some of the other ways riders have gone down in this forum? Was it speed, other cars or road users? Lack of riding skill? Inclement weather? Poor roads or road marking and lighting. Personal for example squidding hooning around doing something silly?
    Do you have an opinion that accident are predominantly other people and factors fault or your own?
    I once read that motorcycle accidents are always your fault.


     
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  2. You go down when you lose the fight with gravity :LOL:
     
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  3. Vic gravity is your friend don't fight with it use it.
     
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  4. This is the school of thought that if you crash, it's because you weren't controlling your motorcycle in a way that allowed you to avoid dropping it no matter what happens, and weren't riding it in a fashion that allowed you to avoid the guy who pulled out in front of you, or changed into your lane, or whatever.

    In general, I agree with this philosphy myself. I know that if I crash, 99 times out of 100 it's going to be my fault.

    The only time I think I wouldn't be my fault, would be if I sitting still on the bike when someone hit me, or someone rammed me from behind while I was moving.
     
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  5. Motorcycle are better off without us on their back, Our job as a rider is to intefere as least as possible with our ride.Most single cycle accidents are caused by overestimation of skill levels,and not knowing to handle emergencies that crop up.These flogs who leap straight on a bike bike are asking for trouble,and they will get it, motorcycle riding is a skill that should be honed to perfection,coz if we balls up we are going to die.Sphincter braking is another skill we can do with out. (If your bum tightens,so does the fingers on the brakes).Set your speed before entry and accelerate out.There is absolutely no need to wipe out in a corner if your brain and speed is set right, Gravel washing the rear wheel happens but usually you run out of gravel before you run out of road.It will grip again...... Just when is the question........... wow , I must be bored to dribble this long, I am off for a gas.

    Doc
     
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  6. Nup your fault again, you should be checking mirrors every few seconds. :shock:

    I beleive in the same school of thought, every near miss I've had was because I did something wrong, not anticipating what could have happened.
    I also think that over confidence and peer pressure has some involvement in a lot of accidents.

    Nic
     
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  7. my thoughts "its percentages"
    you dont go up peg scratching on the weekend and you cut the chance of a accident by 50%
    when you do have a squirt you stay within your boundrys and dont push the limits cuts another 10% ( ie being able to change lines mid corner etc)
    dont buckle to peer group pressure , cut another 10%

    so thats narrowed the chance of an accident by 70% generally speaking .

    as for single vehicle accidents many may be riders fault , but 2 vechile accidents the rider is to blame in a small % ( cant remember the swann insurance stat 9 or 19 %)
     
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  8. Nic unless you HAVE been hit from behind, you can't say what you just said
    Yes you should be watching your mirrors, etc, but when I got hit from behind a month ago it was in tight traffic, there was no spare space in the lane on either side even if I HAD seen the guy coming, and things happen far faster than our clinical theories allow for.....
    For the rest, I've fallen off every bike I've ever owned and with only one exception it was always my fault. That one exception was a tank slapper on a dead straight road at exactly the speed limit. We later traced this to an incompatibility of the bike with Pirelli Phantom tyres.....
     
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  9. Point taken

    Nic
     
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  10. So, if you're coming up to the back of some columns of traffic, no room to lane split, and some idiot on a mobile phone brakes too late, hits you from behind and slams you into the car up ahead, that's your fault then?

    Oh - I see that hornet600 above covered this already.

    Or, you're travelling along at 60kph, and some idiot is doing 200kph. You look in your mirrors, see him coming up behind, but due to a lack of stereo vision in your mirrors you can't judge his speed properly - you accelerate but it's way too late.

    Those are the sorts of scenarios I was referring to. If you believe that you can avoid them, then I believe that you're full of it.
     
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  11. Every accident I've had has been my fault :oops: Even the ones that I could explain away, come down to poor decision making. Like when I overtook a car doing 20mph in a 60 zone when he turned right, into me (into a no right turn road as well). How was it my fault? He looked unsure, unsafe, I should have anticipated the unexpected. Maybe a bit harsh, but the lesson stayed with me.

    My dad (sympathetic soul that he is) told me once that an accident is one where your only contribution to it was getting up in the morning. Nice isn't he? (he told me that when I was recuperating after hitting a tree and what I wanted was some TLC).
     
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  12. As a road user, you have an implied right that other road users will follow the law and take into account other road users safety. It is for this reason why most "other party at fault" insurance cases are resolved before going to court.

    If you have an accident with another vehicle and insurance and police find that a party other than yourself was at fault, then it's reasonable to say your implied right as a road user was impinged and your were not at fault for the accident. You may have contributed via some small % of responsibility, but not that the accodent was your fault.

    If we follow the opposite logic, then if you call someone a 4 letter word and get shot/murdered because of it, then you were at fault.

    Proportioned responsibility maybe, fault no.
     
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  13. Another theory.

    Camkawa was heard mentioning that in 6 netrider rides, 8 people have gone down.

    So maybe it all because of Cameron?
     
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  14. Mouth, that may be so, but it all means so little when you're dead or crippled.

    If you ride around with the attitude that most everything should be avoidable, and always anticipate the worst of any road user or road condition, rather than blithely riding through assuming that others will always do the right thing or the road surface will always be consistent, then the chances of going down are reduced dramatically.

    I don't know about others, but for example if I see a car waiting at an intersection that I'm coming up to and have right of way on, I have my brakes set up ready to stop in time, slow down slightly, and move to a more maneuverable road position.

    I then watch many others riders charging through quite dangerous scenarios on blind faith alone that the other road users will do the right thing.

    Again, given a choice between being right coupled with being dead, vs assuming that being right cannot be taken for granted and being alive, I'll take the latter.

    Yes, I agree that for insurance purposes, being "right" when it comes to who is at fault is a totally different issue. Means jack-shit though if you can't walk any more.
     
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  15. Three bikes for my first four years of riding - three accidents all my fault. Summed up as too fast for conditions - in rain, not paying attention and ran wide onto shoulder :cry:

    Fast forward seventeen years, and last three years one acident, not my fault, double parked car meant a quick lane change for cage and into me.

    From my reading of the forums, the majority of the offs, at fault, were from the youngers riders. Experience and patience can't be bought but over-exuberance costs nothing and who at 19 thinks they aren't/weren't bulletproof. I still reckon scars are cool (anyone can get a tattoo :wink: ), I just don't want to add to my collection :p

    Nothing wrong with trying to find your bike's limits - but I now realise that there is a time and a place for everything. I wasn't even aware if you could take a registered bike on a track day 20 odd years ago :oops: We just got up real early, and did our crazy stuff with no traffic around :cool:
     
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  16. :roll: Yes, fault is a different issue and thats what we were discussing.

    Repucussion and/or personal safety is a different aspect, of which I agree with what you said.
     
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  17. For all intents and purposes, the only reason people support this point of view is that, if you think and act according to it, it should help you avoid many hazards. Not because it's "right".
    Mouth's right of course that, legally and morally, you have the right to expect other road users to obey the rules. It's just that to believe people will always drive properly will sooner or later get you into danger.
    I'm quite sure he understands that.
    I think it needs to be made clear to new riders that this attitude (that YOU must take action to avoid or anticipate an accident) is simply a strategy for survival.
     
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  18. In the case of compensation for accidents from what I understand riders are assigned a certain amount of blame for even getting out on the road. Same goes for car drivers.
     
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  19. Well, I had one meeting with the ground, and it happened on a roundabout, in wet conditions. This car came flying his way, spooked me, I hit the brakes and lost control... went skidding down the road. The thing is, the car going fast though it was, did stop before actually entering the intersection (it was one of those suburban roundabouts, basically the size of regular intersection) - so I have to say, it was my own fault in the end.

    Lesson learned: approach roundabouts at slower speed. Be twice as cautious in wet conditions.
    Lesson not truly learned: practice emergency braking!
     
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  20. How close were you to the back of the car infront? I try to make it a rule to never ever pull up behind a car to closely. All hindsight really, but that'll teach you for riding with the kiddies on the go kart track!
     
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