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Why did the bike want to "upright" in a RH bend?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Shiralee, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. I came off my bike recently, while riding along the Lockhart Gap Rd to Dartmouth, Victoria.

    The day was clear; road was dry; and I was really enjoying pushing myself a bit harder in the corners - it was great !

    Then, I was heading around a sweeping RH bend, the bike kept wanting to upright itself, but I knew we had to lean into the corner, or disaster would strike. I don't know exactly what happened, but somewhere between fighting with the bike to lean into the corner & actually stopping, I came a cropper.

    All I remember, is feeling the bike wanted to be upright, and I was fighting to get it to lean into the corner. It wasn't high-speed & the road was pretty good. No, I didn't grab my front brake ! Would an "off" camber make the bike feel this way?

    I'm probably looking for reasons, and there's probably none... just bit of bad luck. Although, lucky in one respect - I "walked" away with a couple of cracked ribs; trashed gear; and the bike written off.

    Attached Files:

  2. Usually the bike will "stand up" when brakes are applied... @raven might have more insight into that tho... you said that you didn't touch the brakes so I don't know. ..

    Glad to read you only had "minor" injuries... will you be getting a replacement bike?
  3. where were you looking? suspect you didn't tip in properly.
    good you're not too banged up
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  4. I actually did the same thing the other day but I actaully wasn't paying attention and with cold tyres, wrote of my other ZX-10r (quickly replaced it asap with the one in the pik ;) ) , as it turns out, due to my bored riding style at the time with cold tyres, a perfect day and a view that was nice I had forgotten about the road, which was new to me and I skidded and crashed into a RH off camber corner in perfect conditions. I just couldn't get the bike to tip into it in the short amount of time I had...

    People have asked me how did you manage to crash on such a slow corner and we KNOW you are a good rider.

    I put it down to two things Camber of the corner and mindless boredom riding (out of the race zone).

    So, in your case I believe that the camber would have played a massive part to what happened.

    Just my two cents
  5. Assuming you didn't apply the breaks, my suggestion would be that your suspension setup may have something to do with the bike wanting to stay upright. Target fixation may have been the cause of ultimate crash though.
  6. Thanks guys.

    I think you're right - "target fixation" might have also played a part. I knew I was a little bit wide & was trying to slow down (reduced throttle) as much as possible not to end up in the gravel - I might have been fixated on the white line... who knows. I might have subconsciously applied more pressure on the back brake than was needed, but was very aware not to touch the front (after seeing a newbie do that in a bad way a few months ago). Anyway, the bike & I skidded along the bitumen for several metres before ending up down the gully.

    It was just a really weird feeling of fighting the bike. The cop who attended said the camber was a bit "off" on that part of the road - I've never felt the bike fight like that before though - wanting to upright itself in a corner (or me fight the bike).

    MadAzz300 - yes, at this stage a new bike is on the cards. Will wait & see what the confidence is like in a couple of months when I can get back on (medically off until ribs heal - too painful to lean forward & twist atm).
  7. How was the bike's steering from lock to lock when stationary? Could you feel any notchiness or resistance at certain points?

    My Gladius developed the same 'fighting' symptom when I entered a left hander — it wouldn't turn, kept going straight. It took sheer force to crank it over and avoid oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. Turns out the steering head bearings were seizing. I had to keep fighting the bike until they were replaced.

    Also, while in a corner, applying the front brake causes the bike to stand up and straighten. The rear brake, applied gently and consistently, will do the opposite.

    Heal well.
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  8. Because the chicken wanted to cross the road..??? what?
    Ok, it can be as simple as you looked to the outside of the corner and your confidence dropped. You went a little stiff and so the bike became stiff.
    Bet you were holding your breath at the time.
    It happens and it's not hard to fix. Just start really focusing on enrty, apex and exit spots. Not the whole picture, but really try to focus on "spots" through a corner.
  9. What happens to a bike when you reduce throttle?
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  10. Did exactly the same thing. Combination of sudden coming off throttle, failure to lean in, failure to look where I wanted to go, instead fixating on the big deep ditch right next to the road. That's where I ended up.
  11. Survival reactions?

    As you got into the corner and became convinced that you weren't going to make it (maybe the bad camber spooked you) you stiffened up, rolled off the throttle, maybe you got on the brakes which caused the bike to be unsettled, your field of view narrowed to the road immediately in front of you, you target fixated, the steering got heavy, you went where you didn't want to go...

    If any of that sounded familiar then it might be time to (re) read twist of the wrist..

    If not, then yeah, check the mechanical side of things :)

    Heal well, and hopefully you can get to the bottom of what happened so you can make sure that it doesn't happen again.
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  12. +1

    also what are survival reactions? Do they help? How do you avoid or overcome them?
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  13. And what is counter steering and how do I do it?
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  14. Practice is the only way to overcome s/r's
    Ingrain new ones
  15. get a copy of twist of the wrist 2 and all will be revealed
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  16. Sorry to hear about your crash. Hope you aren't too sore.

    There is always a reason ... a crash is the result of a combination of events culminating in the incident.
    It is a bit unclear in your post if you lowsided or highsided although you mention 'skidding along' so I am betting on lowside? Which do remember it being?
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  17. Bike will only want to stand up if you are making it stand up.
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  18. Shiralee, sorry to hear you binned it. Heal up quick.

    What does this mean? Pushing beyond your brain's limit perhaps (not bike, your bike can do this)?

    Reducing throttle stands the bike up (= braking), bike runs wider, takes you where you're trying not to go. One solution would probably have been to tip in a bit harder.

    See above. Any slowing down in corner will stand the bike up.

    (Sidenote: we're not talking experienced rider level skills here where tipped in hard trailing rear brake combined with appropriate steering input tightens line)

    Wanting to slow down is brain's first reaction when it feels like going too quick.
    You probably will have also tensed/stiffened on the bike, compounding the above.

    Fighting the consequences of your own inputs (SRs), fighting yourself, not the bike – the bike's just doing what its told, ie.

    Take care, heal well, hope to see you guys back in Melb again soon. :)
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  19. Nightowl, I think you've hit the nail on the head. What you say is pretty much the feeling I got.

    I was really enjoying the ride too; cornering was a lot more relaxed, smoother & a bit more speed (hence pushing myself a bit more - not hesitant like I have been in the past).

    Now to recover & get a new one to start getting back in the groove :)
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  20. I think it's too hard to know what exactly happened. But the replies are good, sensible and you need to listen to them.

    One another thing is that when you slow down mid corner (probably standing the bike up a little) you could have stiffened up. This could result in you applying steering pressure more vertically rather than horizontally, perpendicular to the forks.

    So you can imagine that with a bit of speed it is harder to steer. It is extremely hard to steer if you push on the bar from the top.

    This makes me think that your body position wasn't appropriate, which in combination of SRs and chain of reactions lead to the crash.

    Or course I'm only guessing from the info I see here and that may not be exactly what happened (I wasn't there).
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