Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

why are bike exhausts so expensive?

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by darklightBoy, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. It may seem a strange question, and the answer may be relative, but when I can get a cat-back exhaust system for under $500 for my car, why on earth does 12-18" of pipe and a muffler for a VTR cost over the $600 mark? Is there something I'm missing here?


     
     Top
  2. Simple.
    Smaller Market=Less Sales=Higher Profit Margin. :)
     
     Top
  3. Even simpler:
    Bikers ARE Dumb = Charge Whatever You Want = Holiday In St. Tropez :p
     
     Top
  4. I don't know the answer to your question, but I agree with your disgust. The full system I want for my bike is over $1600 :shock: . Guess what I'm not getting! If I want to spend $1600 to get better performance I will use it to trade in on a 750 :wink: :grin:
     
     Top
  5. Some of it is market size, but I believe we are being reemed.

    Even the car shops do most of their pipe work to suit each application and theres not much in a bike muffler so there shouldn't be that much in it.
     
     Top
  6. Playing devil's advocate...

    Scales of economy definitely come into it - A muffler (effectively an entire cat-back system) for my MR2 costs in the order of $800 for a stainless one, $500 for a mild steel one. Or $200 for a mass-produced off-the-shelf stainless muffler and some off-the-shelf pipe bends, but it'd be illegally loud because the MR2 has no resonator, just one big, BIG muffler, and a generic glasspack muffler won't cut it.


    Fit and finish, too:
    The entire system on a bike has to be perfect pristine stainless steel, very neatly (machine?) TIG welded, with no spatter, and must suit the aestetics of the bike. The muffler itself is often designed specifically to suit the aesthetics and loudness of the bike.

    The system on a car can be mild steel right up to the final muffler, the resonator (off the shelf) can be mild steel, the final muffler (off the shelf) is a cheap stainless mass-produced unit and typically only the tip is visible. Most of the welding is therefore mild-steel, and can be done easily with stick or MIG welders with no concerns for how dodgy they look.

    R&D time (designing the entire system specifically for the bike/car, versus slapping together a few pre-bent pipe pieces and an off-the-shelf riceboy muffler) is another cost to recover. Take a look at the price for tuned exhaust headers for most cars and bikes. Or camshafts even.

    And then there's the Exotic Holiday Trip to recover. :)

    That's the devil's advocate angle, at least.

    It's still very expensive, though, I agree entirely.
     
     Top
  7. 1600 will not even get you a basic system for a Ducati from the importer. Try 2400 and upwards. Example, the lovely new system for the HyperMotard (single exhaust muffler and header set.) is over 4000
     
     Top
  8. its worth making ur own
     
     Top
  9. Just finished my JD2 design rip off tube bender built it for $10 scrounged up the steel

    Dender dies cost $50 dollars machined it myself

    35 mm x 1.6 wall tube not exhaust tube tat cost $ 28 dollars for 6 metres

    100 mm stainless can and end caps got out of the scrap bin at work

    3 to 4 hours of fun at the week end and who knows the mighty cx500 might get a two into one high line pie or waht ever else takes my fancy

    all together cash out of pocket under a 100 bucks

    building it yourself = Priceless
     
     Top
  10. Well 100 bucks anyway.

    Got any photos?
     
     Top
  11. SOP003.

    There you go its missing its former piece but will post better pic tonight from home
     
     Top
  12. spots: i hate you :p
     
     Top
  13. *grins* There're ways around it, like what Brucey is doing. :)

    'specially if you take measurements off of an existing muffler and try to duplicate it. That way the noise 'n flow shouldn't be outrageously dissimilar.

    A thoroughly tuned and developed system for your car from world-famous Cheetahspeed Tuning Haus usually costs double or triple what your local exhaust shop could put together. Mebbe the same goes for bikes. Might be worth asking around some of the more competent workshops to see what they'd charge to adapt a glasspack muffler onto it.

    And hey - most of the VTR's exhaust system is just black mildsteel anyway, so making the whole thing out of stainless isn't as important. :)
     
     Top
  14. Yeah mate all my mufflers over the years have been copies of standard mufflers you know the type they have a big void in the middle

    Its where the tooth fairy lives :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
     
     Top
  15. Anyone know what a new muffler for a Bandit 1250 (07 model) would cost?
    The stock pipes are dangerous in that they are dead silent!
     
     Top
  16. nice work on the pipe bender brucey :!:

    you use a spring or similar to stop it collapsing when bending?
     
     Top
  17. *grin* Yeah, straight-through glasspacked mufflers. :)

    I designed a 'special' version of that type of muffler in Formula SAE (CBR600F4i motor, 110dB(A) noise limit), which worked well in that application, but I've always sorta wondered how it'd 'scale up' to "real" applications like a car or a street-legal bike.
     
     Top
  18. I guess it's the muffler, more than just the exhaust that I'm interested in. After all, you can't extract much extra power from a 250 twin, plus I still think I've got enough atm. I do believe though that a hollowed-out steel can sounds horrendous, so I don't really like the idea of doing it myself though. But I'll check out local places, see if anyone can offer anything. Hobart's not the most diverse for that though.
     
     Top
  19. Just one thought on it - if you go with a glasspack straight-through muffler, I wouldn't go any wider diameter than the pipe that runs into the muffler. Not that you would anyway because it'd be a discontinuity to the flow.

    My carefully calibrated butt dyno sometimes wonders if the bike loses a hint of its really-low-end torque with a Megacycle glasspack (which may have been compensated by a hint more top-end power?).

    Or I could just be imagining the slight loss of low-end torque. Not like butt dynos are accurate. :)

    Either way, going bigger diameter and shortening the pipe run will reduce the scavenging effect at low engine speeds (but will give the bike more headroom at high rpm, which would go well with more aggressive cams, higher compression, higher redline, a turbocharger...) :)

    (Sorry, I'm getting silly now)
     
     Top
  20. No springs mate a round former shoved up its guts ala mandrel bend

    as you can see in this photo i needed the outer former die block to establish the line of the extension to take the internal former support mechanism

    By the way only need to drill the 7/8 hole to finish it and grind some clearances it the drive legs and its finished.

    if it wasnt so cold and i would be out in the garage bolting it down and would have drilled that bloody hole


    Bender001_Small_.
     
     Top