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Who's at fault MOST???

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by hornet, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. I have been suggesting this for a long time based on old data, but here's some recent data that proves the point.

    Which group of people is the majority contributor to motorcycle crashes involving the following categories.

    1. speed
    2. alcohol
    3. fatigue
    4. no helmet
    5. pillion fatalities?

    if you guessed UNLICENCED RIDERS, you are absolutely correct, and some of these margins are very large!!


    So what does this tell us about Government and Policing response to motorcycle accidents? If unlicened riders were blitzed off the road the statistics would be dramatically lower.

    This means that ANY strategy to deal with motorcycle safety that fails to address this central issue, is doomed before a cent is spent.

    Plainly unlicenced riders don't care about the law, don't care about consequences, and indulge in high-risk behaviour with little thought or care.

    Once this issue is dealt with, let us then see some sensible laws to ASSIST in safety for the law-abiding riders who are being penalised for the idiocy of a silent but real majority..

  2. True, which is probably how they lost their licence in the first place. Consequently I don't see how a blitz would be all that effective, there have been numerous cases in the media of drivers that have been repeatedly caught driving without a licence so clearly the current penalty system of fines, licence suspensions :roll: , and even jail terms for unlicenced driving ain't working. I still think the best method available is that used in New Zealand - anyone caught without a licence has their vehicle immediately impounded.
  3. get no argument from me on that, and then impound their mate's bike when they ride IT........

    the other interesting stat there is the pie-chart on the first page covering contributory factors.......
  4. impounded? definitely makes sense! take the weapon away from the user to prevent the crime. can't just fine them and give the weapon back and hope they don't use it!

    anyway that's very interesting the stats on unlicenced riders. didn't know there were that many around!!
  5. and we share the roads with them.
    I wonder if I should ask how many Netriders are riding or have ridden unlicenced? Might lower some ivory towers??
  6. How about a buy back scheme/bike amnesty?

    Evil unlicenced riders can return their 'weapons' to the local cop shop with no ramifications, and then they are given out to poor licenced sods who've just had their pride and joy written off by a cager.

    Sounds great to me.

    Other suggestion? Let's get medieval on their arses and cut off their right hand. Can't twist the throttle without your right hand. :twisted:
  7. i guess a lot of pillions would be un-licenced.
  8. The stats are about unlicenced riders, plainly many of these kill their pillions, whether or not the pillion has a licence.......
  9. Hornet how do you come to that conclusion?
    The stats are not very specific and only use percentages, which without actual numbers are very misleading, especially when one fatalitly can also cross into several catagories
  10. well it supports my theory of driver/rider.... those that are inexperienced/not qualified to drive/ride these vechiles are the ones that choke up most of the stats.

    would love to see a stat. of those that have done advanced driver/rider course compared to accidents and those that haven't..... i would put money on those doing advanced courses would have few accidents
  11. i'll put my hand up there, i did it a few times. i wouldn't say what i did was right, but put in the same situation, i'd probably do it again.

    if you lose your licence for a year and then manage to stay off the road COMPLETELY for that entire year, then you have better willpower than me. as it is, i did spend the last 6 months of the 12 month suspension not getting on the road at all and when i got back on, it almost felt like id started from scratch again :?

    i personally feel that long suspensions are DANGEROUS, there has to be a better way of discouraging people than making them worse drivers/riders. when i got back on the road, i'd forgotten how to scan, forgotten how to read traffic, forgotten how to read drivers etc. but still had the skills and for the most part, the confidence. this is a deadly combination IMO and for a few weeks there, i considered myself a statistic waiting to happen :?

    i wonder if anyone has ever put together stats on re-licenced ppls and how likely they are to get in an accident. its not something i thought about till i got back on the road, it'd be a pretty damn interesting read i reckon....
  12. Dont get me started on my evil twin , I only sent him away 3 mths ago.

    :LOL: :twisted: :LOL:
  13. I don't know about other peoples' experiences, but I have been pulled over by the plod dozens of times for licence checks. Certainly more than for any other reason. Usually they have been straightforward and polite about it. I'd have to say that, yes it is a big issue but it seems that it is one that is being addressed to some degree.
    Also, I think you might want to distinguish between those who have never had a licence and those who are temporarily without one. Big difference, especially with how ridiculously easy it is to rack up points without even knowing about it nowadays.
  14. The "unlicensed rider" section, I assume, does not include pillions. How did I come to this conclusion? There is a specific catagory for "Pillions". Ergo, the problem with unlicensed riders stands.
  15. Then you must be riding like a jackass ;) j/k

    I been pulled over once in the last 2-3 years (and was let off for 122 in a 100 zone). The only other times ive had to produce my license is at booze buses.
  16. Nahhhh, you have it all wrong guys and girls.

    It is the Green card carrying, 4WD owning, Levy weilding people that are the main cause....
  17. Wrong country mitch :p

    I've had a couple of licence checks, both times out in the country (except for when mitch got pulled up :roll: ) Both times I got to chatting with the cops and got information...what's up ahead, what festivals are on, which pub was the best to go to for a drink :LOL: :LOL: Local cops are a mine for information :wink:
  18. Of course statistics can be unclear as they may not give all the details. They can often however be an indication. The figures would not show for example what experience a rider has had, nor the attitude or circumstances around their off. Police are not teh most accurate at determining the cause of a crash, as more often than not, if in doubt, tick the box suggesting speed was the cause. What is not mentioned is that speed for the conditions at the time may be more so the culprit, and the rider may have been well within the speed limit. Just sighting an example. What I find more interesting is the number of people who have an off, and what percentage have licences and what do not. To me that is significant as well as the fact of what total number have and dont have licences. If for example 50% of rider fatalities were unlicenced, that would be scary if it was known that less than 1% of riders were unlicenced!!!!

    Riding on the road is a skill, and without starting a debate here or hijacking a thread. I do know that having a high level of bike control skills on dirt is different from riding in heavy traffic. Yes some skills are transferable, yet they are also uniquely different. Skill is made of bike control, mental skills and self control. I for one can always improve in all of these, as I'm sure others can as well. If one is severley lacking then there is rise to concern.

  19. Well we must agree to disagree, look at the graphs again, and what about where there are no witnesses to who was actualy riding?
  20. tones, surely experience is not the issue in this case. The stats just show that unlicenced riders, whether never having held a licence, or disqualified and riding anyway, are majority represented in those 5 categories. An experienced unlicenced rider is still breaking the law, and as the stats show, is likely to be majority represented in crashes.
    Impounding bikes for riders who ride unlicenced would surely lower these figures; if they can't ride, they can't crash.
    I agree, incidentally, that disqualification for long periods MUST dull the skills, but I don't know what the alternative is; would you rather that they had impounded your bike for a shorter period?? Maybe that would work, dunno, thankfully It hasn't happened to me. Anyway, mostly thoughtful contributions here, which is the idea of the forum....