Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Who's at fault? - Discuss

Discussion in 'Multimedia' started by Chef, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. If you've been on a group ride or ridden around other bikes before, you will probably have come across a situation like this...


    ...so here's a good chance to discuss what caused it, and what could have been done to avoid it.

  2. i would expect in a group ride travelling at that pace, not to have an idiot pass at that speed. the dude turning has right of way, but possibly didnt check his mirrors well enough. then again assuming you indicate adequately, and are turning right front the RHS of the road (as he would have been doing had this been in Oz), you dont really expect an idiot to pass you on that side.

    looknig closely however, this guy already cut off a slower moving bike, forcing him across the centre line. he drifted across, turned his head for a look, and yet still went for the turn. how he didnt see the speeding bike i dont know.

    who is at fault? legally - the fast bike.
    realistically - they both are. poor group riding skills from both.

    how to avoid it? take your time when turning in and out of groups, start early with plenty of indication. LOOK.
    and dont pass 20km/h bikes at 90km/h :LOL:

    im trying to work out who was tooting throughout the video though...
  3. Perhaps because 90kmh is a massive understatement. That was way in excess of 90kmh.

    Any plonker who overtakes a line of slow moving vehicles at that sort of speed differential is nuts.

    The turning bike should/could have looked harder, but the speed at which the bike was approaching meant he still might have missed it. In a group ride like that, you also don't want to spend too long not looking at the bike in front.
  4. let this be a lesson in dynamic self imposed speed limits

    plus i dont think that bike was doing more than 90, things just look damn quick when theyre near the camera. look at it in relation to the stationary trees.

    even if it was the speed limit in a normal situation it was too fast with so many obvious hazards present.

    it looks like he/she locked the brakes close to that nearby tree, and they didnt have enough room to stop
  5. The salient point is that whatever the speed was, it was too fast to avoid an accident.

    And the implication from the headline on the video is that the left turn guy was at fault. :eek:
  6. disagree

    I think your estimate is a bit off, because at 90km/h he'd be moving 25mtrs a second and that'd make him a bit of a blur from that camera angle. Semantics aside he's certainly not just ambling along

    agree, I hold blame on this overtaking manouvre at speed along a line of other vehicles not at speed. It should make ones common sense kick in and say "Hmmm why have they all suddenly gone slow ... is there something ahead of them or me ? "

    agree again, the turning vehicle didn't look hard enough at all bar a mere glance over the shoulder. I'm suspecting that Mr.Plod would probably hand him the ticket due to turning across traffic in an unsafe manner ????

    My opinion on this is that both should be held just as accountable. As for the prevention well how about starting with the fact that the leader of the ride let others pass him when he was trying to alert them to his left turn ... ride leader FAIL ..... ride participant FAIL overtaking your leader. Secondly where's your head at overtaking such a long column at such higher speed than they are doing ? Disregard the turn-across and tell me how you're gunna slot back in to the right side of the road to avoid oncoming traffic ? You're not you're gunna have to ride the middle of the road while you wipe off speed to get back in, hardly safe riding.
  7. well of course, there was no way that rider would have seen the bike coming. even if it was in the peripheral vision, it would be just about impossible to register 1 particular headlight as coming towards you fast, when there are many bikes behind you.
  8. IMO, the overtaking rider is at fault for causing the collision. Too great a speed differential to be safe in that particular situation.

    The turning bike certainly should have positioned themselves more to the centreline to avoid riders behind to go evasive when he started turning (earlier indicator would go to helping this also, but the decision to turn may have been a late one, but unlikely given the speed he was approaching the point he eventually turned), but that's a separate incident/problem to the eventual collision.

    Group riding basics would have avoided this ever happening (ie: space between riders, sensible overtaking, etc). The guy overtaking just had nowhere to go, and you always need an escape route in your head for things like this
  9. all of them, for riding in such a big group

    you can't possibly know the abilities or stupidities of all the people you are riding with in a group that size, and it only takes one 'plonker' the stuff it up for everyone

    I prefer to ride alone, or with only one or two others I trust.....
  10. glad you're not a judge, Paul :p

    feel free to convince me how the dude 3rd from the Lead Rider was in any way involved with that incident...
  11. mucho blipping of throttles, not just from the guy turning, (who appears to have his flip helmet up, indicating that the turn is not a sudden decision), so everyone is going slow. rossi-wannabe totally at fault, whether he is a member of the ride or not.

    I'm not familiar with Polish law, but in NSW he would be fined for Neg Driving, and possibly other offences as well....
  12. Actually, judging by the length of certain bikes against the white line, A wild guess would be each set of center line and a gap, is about 4-4.5 meters long. I used adobe premiere to time him, from the furthest set back that I could accurately see him in, and figure he traveled roughly 6 sets, so for 4-4.5 meters per set, in 1.14 secs, would be roughly 24 - 27 meters in 1.14 secs.

    So a rough guess, is about 21-23 m/s or 75-82 km/h in a 1 second sample resulting in impact. Allowing that this guys is on the picks for most of that sample, its safe to say his estimated speed could be anywhere upwards of this figure.

    Pretty dumb really, i hope they all survived.
  13. Does it matter whether he was doing 75 or 105? It was a dumb move.

    But I do agree that the rider making the turn is in some way responsible, but the accident would not have happened if the overtaking rider was travelling slower.
  14. How come there is always someone there to film these occurrences? The guy holding the camera would have been collected majorly.
  15. Rider performing the overtake was wholly at fault. No questions. Full stop.

    Doesn't matter that the guy making the turn didn't look properly. He was turning into a side road. He has to look for oncoming traffic. This is precisely why it's illegal (in Australia) to overtake a vehicle turning right on the right hand side. The vehicle turning simply cannot be expected to safely survey backwards, forwards, and to the side street all at once.

    The overtaking vehicle should have been aware that there was a turn-off, should have monitored his speed differential, and should have been prepared to anticipate that someone may turn in front of him.

    It's a different matter if the guy in front was pulling out to overtake, but he wasn't. If he was pulling out to overtake, then it's his fault. He wasn't though, he was turning at an obvious intersection, and that makes it wholly the overtakers fault. Period.

    The overtaker is a f*cking idiot and assuming I was still capable if it were me that was hit, I'd hospitalise him, or make his stay in hospital that much longer and more painful.
  16. I reckon the guy turning is at fault for failing to give way to the right/keep left. Also as said the overtaking lad is at fault for overtaking a turning vehicle.

    I say this because it appears the turning bike was not indicating - it even appears that it's indicating in the other direction.
  17. I hope this is sarcasm. If you are turnign right (in Australia) you are not required to check behind you or check over your right shoulder. All you are required to do is give way to on-coming traffic.

    The over-taker is the only vehicle at fault.
  18. He wasn't indicating the turn (correctly), so he failed to keep left.
  19. even if he was indicating correctly, the other rider was so far back and going so fast he wouldnt be able to see it and/or stop in time anyway. and he was failing to keep right not left :wink:
  20. Yeah, he/she was a dork for doing that - I'm not saying that person wasn't doing anything wrong. I'm thinking that if I were overtaking a car and that car decides to turn/swerve in front of me at the last minute without any indication. Probably be labelled as a rear-ender and I'd get booked. So I dunno, they're both stupid :D