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Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by FormerUser2, Nov 2, 2004.
Re: Repost: Which is faster
It is? Can you show statistics on this, or perhaps you want to quantify it with saying that it's a well known fact that F1 GP Cars are faster than MotoGP bikes around the track. When you compare MotoGP bikes with 'production' race cars (eg. Porsche cup F1 support race), the MotoGP is faster. Eg. Around Sepang a MotoGP bike times is 2m01s whilst the Porshe is 2m15s. MotoGP bike times are a lot closer to production bike times than F1 GP cars are to production car times. Eg, Rossi has ridden stock factory fireblade and gets to within just a few seconds of his race times.
It was closer to the 20-25km mark. He tried much harder when I caught him. Straightlining just about every corner, late braking, etc. He realised he was holding me up, and on an ~400mtr straight section he didnt accelerate as hard allowing me to pass. He continued to try and outpace me, but was slipping back on each corner. We had a very brief chat when we hit the GOR. He said that he often outpaces bikes in the GOR area, but in roughly 10%-15% of times the bike will outpace him.
Re: Repost: Which is faster
That's why I already said he didn't accelerate along a brief straight to allow me to pass.
Re: Repost: Which is faster
Add in weight mass of movement from the trajectory of a car compared to a bike on a road like Reefton with many tighter and curvier corners, and that is why a bike will win. You cannot compare a road like Reefton (or most twisties for that matter) to a wide and smooth track surface.
I did see your pole questions, I thought of another: How long is a pice of string.
I'd put my money on the bike, my reasoning being:
-bike accelerates faster
-bike decelerates faster
-bike corners faster
-bike can take a better line through corners
-bike riders are usually far more psycho then the guy who spent $100k on his flashy car
OK , you are all wrong . ( that should get jas going first thing this morning )
depending on the track will deciede which will win .
a few years back and mouth (jason) would probably remember it a video came out with a porsh'e 911 twin with AWS (note all wheel steering)
raced a R1 around a little british race track.
the car pipped the bike at the line , why you ask?
1. it was in race track conditions where the road is smoother and he could push and slid the car keeping constant speed and utilise the AWS
2.The road is wider and and tighter and from 1 corner to the next there is only short little straights for the bike to pull away out of the corner.
3. a car with enough horse power and AWS can go into a corner as fast as a bike and keep that corner line speed and accelerate out the otherside.
but we are talking twin turbo AWS cars here in track invoirments.
when the test was repeated a week later on a bigger track ? silverstone or one of there major tracks , the R1 pissed it in by at least 15 to 20 bike lengths.
Differance in track , types of corners and also bike being able to use it full potential and not be ristricted or brought back to the car
on reefton , bike will win , if able to use both sides of the road without having to worry about on coming traffic etc and the road was closed to all traffic
going up reefton bike for sure , down hill the bike cant utilise its sprint out of corners and the car can utilise its AWS at lower speed .
so in a nut shell
unfair comparrison , you can make any stat or race say what you want by the type of track , up hill / down hill etc .
anyway why would you race a r1 against it ?
in an overall race I would want a zx12 , gsx1300r etc
if jason had of been riding a gsx1300r or zx12 when he was behind the car he would have had no problems finding top end speed for passing i dont think the porsche is good enough to pop 320-340 kph with out a massive wind up .
anyway , I blow the lot of you's off on my across
I had this exact same scenario happen in the US....
SAturday morning, Porche and Supermotard... Hwy9 to bear creek. The motard won hands down... That would be me..
I saw a bike mag do this once, compared acceleration, braking, top-speed and cornering (on a race track of course).
Car won the top-speed (better aerodynamics) and cornering (greater grip due to the size of its tyre footprint) tests, the bike won the acceleration test (better power-to-weight ratio) and tied for braking (bike has less weight but also less grip).
Update - Ok now it's more technical (and harder to read) for you technical types
This sounds like a great topic "Racing on Public Roads"
Its good to see that one of the Admins of Netrider is working so hard to promote a safe responsible image of motorcycle riders.
Maybe we should hold the next GP at Reefton it seems to be where everyone does their best times.
Unless your competing for the Darwin awards then the winner is the person who allows the greater safety margines and doesn't involve the unsuspecting public in stupid games.
talk aboot a killjoy! go ride your scooter or something :wink:
a bike would whoop it up through reefton. like grobers said, road conditions will determine the winner more than power or braking. what has the best times around sandown? A FRIGGEN TRUCK!
take them to different roads and you'll get different results. thinner roads with medium to fast corners will see a bike way up front. widen the road a bit and make those corners slower or virtually non-existant and the car will be able to slide around the corners, or use its top speed to keep ahead of the bike.
soooo many variables, but i'm all for testing it. gimme an R1 and close the road and i'll gladly show you how much faster the bike would be
and Wheels mag did it here in Oz....
a Gpz900 versus a Torana A9X
yeah ...I know this was a while ago
age wearies not my memory
the bike won the trial...just
some surprises though
the car outbraked the bike..easy
the bike won the cornering bit...hmmmm
and the car was faster...fractionally
the bike won the slalom, as you would expect
Ouch!! that really hurts Marty
Before you continue with your brilliant comebacks, help me understand this. It seems to be ok for us bikers to break the law yet I read in these forums about riders who are up in arms over a woman who breaks the law. Granted, Jason isn't pissed when setting a new lap record but what happens when he runs wide on a corner and takes out some poor bastard coming the other way? Will you be the first one to attend a mass rally to push for Jason to be put behind bars?
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for having a good time just don't include other people when your risk taking. Do it on a Race Track :!: :!:
Some food for thought:-
Motorcycles currently account for about three per cent of all vehicles registered in Victoria and less than one per cent of road travel. Despite this, motorcyclists and pillion passengers accounted for 11 per cent of road fatalities in 2002–03.
I think most riders on this forum (including Jason) ride within their limits and take into account road conditions, other road-users etc etc. In other words, don't take this thread too seriously....
Sorry to be a killjoy, but Sugarslayer does have a good point.... By us posting where we ride fast, does it not then make it easier for the law enforcement to catch us????
ummm yeah, its kinda a bit of a 'what if' a light hearted nerdy who will win. if we were asking whether spiderman could beat the hulk would you expect us to go around getting bitten by radioactive spiders to find out?
more food for thought:-
the amount of motorcycle accidents that are officially our fault is around the 40% mark for a memory. and bear in mind that doesn't include accidents where the car has driven off or hasn't even realized they have caused an accident. its not hard for a bike to come unstuck due to some careless driving and i can image in quite a few instances, the driver wouldn't even notice the felled bike.
now get outta my daydream :wink: