Jumping off the thread about Reefton and Sparky's off yesterday, what constitutes an experienced rider, I've been plodding round this earth for a while and even though I am on a restricted licence now, I have been on and off (sometimes painfully off) bikes for around 30 years. My bike is my daily commuter, regardless of weather conditions, I do a round trip of 80 kliks a day (freeway and local rds) if I go direct, and God knows how many if I get bored coming home. My point to all this is, am I experienced? In the wet/heat = yes freeway = yes gridlock = yes so who is the experienced rider, the one who never rides if it looks like rain, the weekender who does the twisties at maximum velocity, the rider with 40 yrs riding experience who only goes out every third sunday and only in a group, or the daily commuter. I consider myself a good rider when I'm in my comfort zone, and for me that's commuting, I still get to twist the wrist a little, I still get a buzz out of being ahead of everything else (except a bigger bloody bike) lanesplitting still gives me a woody..... But when it comes to Twisties = no bottle ... I'm the one at the back, at least 5 kliks slower than anybody else and enjoying the scenery.