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what went wrong?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by robeel, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. about 2 months ago i dropped my bike after about 7 months of riding, had it fully checked out & luckily was only cosmetic damage but have spent a fair bit doing it up nice. besides adding more hp:angel: & making her look good, i'll be upgrading tyres, brakes & suspension as it's a 15yr old bike.

    anyway it was the usual early morning rushing to get to work on the FUP sydney streets. i was in the far left of 3 lanes (both lanes to the right, have to turn right at the lights), i accelerated to get into the middle lane to turn right about 100m ahead, was a bit of traffic in the middle lane but the cars were still moving & had about 10-15m gap in front, so i wanted to get into the far right lane with no cars, i turned to look if it was safe when a dick cager quickly jumped into that lane from behind me, i look back in front of me & see the cars have hit the brakes all of a sudden, so i hit the brakes pretty hard & next thing i know the bike just slides out from under me like i'm on ice??? luckily i just stopped before hitting the car in front, i think my front tyre might have been under the car, can't remember!

    would like to know wtf happened so it doesn't happen again!

    did i hit the brakes too hard( i don't think so)?
    tyres cold? as it was only about 10-15min riding?
    road moist from early morning? was about 7am.
    front forks suspension old?
    after i got my bike around the side street i went back & noticed about where i hit the brakes there was those covered up pot holes i think it was that went for about a metre. you know those lumps in the road, not sure if that had anything to do with it?

    so was it something i did or a combination of things?

    any advice from experienced riders is much appreciated.

  2. You can brake harder if you "set up" your brakes. This means that you progressively squeeze the lever which will put the weight on the front and allow good grip for when you squeeze more. If you brake suddenly you are more likely to lock the front.

    Practice makes perfect
  3. It's pretty simple. You exceeded the amount of grip you had.
    Big question is why. (I know)
    THAT could be for one specific reason or for a combination of reasons, that only you can work out.

    IMHO, it was probably a combination of too much brake, with tyres too cold, on an unpredictable surface. I doubt moisture if it wasn't raining because the heat from cars evapourates any dew.

    One thing, you knew the cars in your lane would be having to stop, so why we're you caught off guard? And the car diving into the outside lane should have been expected. If you thought it would be good to go there, chances are, so will others.
    Just more experience and time on the road to learn the ways of traffic.
  4. Notice any diesel/oil on the road? Been seeing a lot on the road lately especially Ryde Road.
  5. Blaming it all on diesel etc might be accurate but it doesn't really stop you falling off next time. Raven is right, you exceeded your traction, that can be cured by practicing braking and knowing what the bike feels like when it is getting to the limits of traction, so whether there is diesel on the road or not you will be fine.
  6. Forward vision, why were you in the left lane when you wanted to be in the right lane 100m ahead and there was a bit of traffic ahead? If you had gotten over to the right lane earlier you wouldn't have put yourself in that situation.

    And I agree with Raven's post.
  7. Classic panic brake front wheel wash out would explain it.

    A very quick set up and squeeze at low speed on an questionable patch of road would explain it too.

    www.msgroup.org has some good braking articles about ebraking and how the speed of an ebrake effects the effectiveness. Go have a look.
  8. You mention "front forks suspension old? " and while I doubt that was a contributing factor I'd be looking at your fork springs and oil and seals with a bike of this age. You'd expect the springs to have lost stiffness and sagged a bit and seals are one of the most neglected components.
    Are there any oil leaks from the seals, does the bike tend to dive a bit too much under braking?
    I'm currently having progressive front springs and new seals fitted to a bike slightly older vintage - '94 ZR550. I'm going with progressives based on others experience with the same bike and the major improvement it makes.
    No way am I saying this contributed to your near miss but, at least, check your fork seals are ok and on a bike of that age consider the springs.
  9. It's not hitting the brakes too hard,
    My bet is you 'hit the brakes' and locked the front
    If you just grab the front brake quickly, it'll lock pretty easily.
    What you ned to to is apply a little pressure, let the forks take the load and the tyre start to deform and then squeeze hard.

    All that takes only a fraction of a second, but makes all the difference.
    My bet is you looked up, went "oh Fuc.." And just grabbed the fronts.
    Been there, done that.
  10. I'm betting the same and I also think going from far left to middle to right qo quikly was not a great idea and the OP was thrown and distracted a bit by the car behind also changing lanes. If you are travelling in a lane for quite some time you have enough time to sight the car behind and think well in advance of what it might be doing when you change lanes.
    The lane change into the right lane was reactionary "there are no cars there so I'll move there". The first lane change was predictive in that the OP needed to be in that lane to turn right so was planned well in advance.
    Had the OP needed to be in the far right to make a RH turn further along then it might have been an earlier move into the middle then a planned earlier move into the far right.
    A few other factors such as surface etc might have influenced this but I'd say the lesson is to not react to impulse as much. There would have been no hassle staying in the middle lane.
  11. When you vision came back to they way you were going did you get a big tummy pang??? Do you remember it? Adrenalin can give us enormous strength. I am sure you have heard of moms lifting cars so forth to free their children.
    Pretty much the same when we panic and grab the front brake too hard. You don't think you are reefing it in to hard. But the end picture tells otherwise.
    Put it down to only under a year of riding. Your thought process is not fully tuned yet. It will come and we all have to train our brain to be bike worthy.
    As said when that's (thought process) up to speed you would have been in the right lane long ago.
    Your far from being on your pat malone on this one and there are plenty that have done the same thing.
    If your posture is good then your balance will be also. Then you can lock a front and not go strait down.
    It's a series of simple mistakes that cause a crash. Often they lead all the way back to before you even got on your bike.
  12. I'm just a beginner myself, so this is pure speculation based on a similar experience.

    Do you remember if you looked down when you were ebraking? I did and as you described i went straight down. keep your head up and look ahead and see if that makes a difference.

    Good to hear you are ok by the way.
  13. Classic case of panic braking due to insufficient awareness of surroundings and trying to find blame in everything and everyone else when the only blame in this case is the rider.
    Harsh but true.
  14. You were following too closely to safely do a head check of the right hand lane. In fact, you had already decided that the lane was free before you looked.
    Traffic stopping at inconvenient moments is entirely predictable.
  15. Just something that I picked up on in your tale of woe..

    You say It was the usual morning "rushing". It could just be your terminology (meaning the rush hour).. but could it also be a factor as "rushing" is something all road users should avoid at all costs.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. My mate binned his hyosung 3 times like this, the suspension would bottom out and throw him off. He bought my clapped out old cbr900 and has never come off. Alot of the LAM bikes are so divvy in the front it's easier to wash out the front than a big bike.
  17. Classic case of cramming the brakes to hard
  18. Makes it a good idea to go for new and possibly progressive springs in a bike more than a few years old and in some cases newer. A really simple mod that can make the world of difference.
  19. I wasn't there. I have only your description to go by. That may or may not be accurate.

    It sounds like a combination of things, including the things you did.

    Grip does change dramatically over different surfaces, and does drop away when there is a change of surface. Throw in the fact that a change of surface usually involves a small change of level or height and you have a pretty good trigger for a loss of grip. The degree or extent of that loss is attenuated or compounded by your suspension set-up. Good suspension soaks things up. Poor suspension exaggerates or compounds the problems you encounter.

    I think (I wasn't there) the major issue here is a failure of defensive riding and anticipation. I think you painted yourself into a corner and then had to do heroic things to avoid the mobile road furniture, and in doing that you failed to appreciate the degree to which your grip was compromised by bumps and funny surfaces where the road had been patched.

    There are a lot of things to evaluate and assess all a the same time. So you need to prioritise and get the basics right first. I think you painted yourself into a corner and then the law of probability bit you.

    I repeat - I wasn't there - I have only your description to go on. I may be dramatically wrong here.