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What does "more forgiving bike" means?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by dima, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. Title says it all.
    What exactly does it mean (in relation to sportbikes)?

    Also how does a more forgiving supersport bike make you a better rider (if it does, which is something that is often suggested - get a bike A instead of B because A is more forgiving)?

    Cheers.


     
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  2. If you sneeze, fart, or muscle spasm, and grab too much throttle a forgiving, or moderate powered bike, won't behave like a wild bull and try to throw you off.
     
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  3. It means get a gsxr 600 ;-)
     
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  4. Instead of lying in wait to kill you the split second you forget yourself and do something foolish/hamfisted.
    It will flatter you, make you look like a better rider, not actively try to kill you and maybe give you a reach around.
     
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  5. there are no forgiving supersports. all controls are hair trigger.
    but that's what you need to fine tune your riding.

    unless you refer to the hyodung 650 which markets itself in the supersports caregory. what a wank.
     
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  6. Mmmm.. a forgiving bike, I like the concept. But I haven't found 1 yet. All my bikes throw me, buck me, drop on top of me, slide out from under me. One bike I had hated me so much, it dived under a bus.
     
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  7. perhaps if you wore some clothes while riding then they wouldn't feel quite so abused?
     
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  8. A more forgiving bike is one that is less stressful mentally to ride.
    The power usually comes on a lot softer. Doesn't always mean it's less powerful. Usually it will have more torque so it produces some power right off idle. So it doesn't come on with a bang... all at once.
    It will be a bit softer sprung in the suspension, so it's not as twitchy. Often quite comfy to ride around town.
    It will have more flex in it.... Flex being softer suspension, a doughier power delivery.
    And yeah to a point it can make you a fester rider.............till you start riding really fast and take it out of it's comfort zone. Then the "flex works against you.
    The mad, twitchy and very stiff skitzo bike starts to shine at the limits. Where before it was mad and all over the place. It starts to settle near the limits. It rides really well and feels planted and secure. Where the more forgiving bike is beyond it's abilities.
    Everything and everyone has a window of opportunity, that small amount where they really shine.
     
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  9. UncleFester-New.
     
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  10. What do you think it means?
     
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  11. A more forgiving bike won't get angry about your large collection of bike mags under the bed.
     
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  12. It masks out the mistakes a rider makes (poor throttle control, tipping in, lines whatever)?

    So why would one want a forgiving bike that doesn't help improving rider's skill (or does it?) and sets one back in skills development?
     
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  13. Dnagir

    BMW s1000rr. Not a forgiving bike. It would be lethal with everything switched off. It is just lucky it has some very good electronics to support the setup. It makes very good horsepower and torque

    12 CBR1000RR. A forgiving bike. Everything is so well refined over the years it is easy to ride and ride fast. It will go as quick as the s1000rr but without the need for the electronics. It makes the same torque as the s1k albiet slightly less horsepower.

    Electronics are taming some of the most powerful sportbikes we can buy. I think this is lulling people into thinking they are 'better' than what they truly are. Learning how to enact upon a rear tire breaking out is a very important lesson. But then again there are a lot of bikes on the market and you know they say adventure touring is the largest growing australian market.

    Most 600 sport bikes are forgiving unless the rider is a complete tosser with the throttle.

    And above is correct, a lot of sportbikes are only just coming into themselves above 160kph. They are remarkable easy to throw around at speeds above this and they have the chassis to back them up. Excusing the hyosungs here
     
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  14. To me it's like the difference between shaving with a Schick Quadro/Gillette Mach 3 etc and a cut-throat razor. It's very difficult to genuinely hurt yourself with the Schick and you'll reliably get an adequate shave but you can get a better and more rewarding shave with the open blade IF you're prepared to learn the required skills and risk some nicks along the way.
    Bikes like the old school Guzzis and big 2-stoke trailies do not tolerate fools lightly, but any moderately skilled rider can punt a mid range UJM at a decent (but not stellar) pace. The cranky bikes are better and more rewarding ... IF you can master them before they kill you.

    For the record, I tend to ride the softer bikes. The razor sharp ones (RGV250s, GSXRs etc) I leave for others so inclined.
     
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  15. #15 Nightowl, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
    Thanks Dnagir.

    This is something that's mentioned a lot, and it's important to me to know how you might be interpreting this before I offer any response. :)

    No. "More forgiving" is relative to your level of experience.

    It doesn't mask errors you make.

    "More forgiving" means it's in a range more commensurate with you having time to process and correct any errors you make.

    Whereas the more powerful, twitchy, sensitive/responsive bikes leave less to no margin in the speed of their responses to inputs you make, so if you make an error you have much less time/margin to correct it.

    Tip in points, lines, corner entry speed etc come back to the rider's judgement and skill.

    Even on a pushbike, if you go into a corner too quick you're stuffed.

    No bike masks poor rider judgement or poor skill.

    Throttle error?

    'k, well in the vein of s/sports compare an FZR250 to an R1.

    An FZR250 will most definitely let you know when you get something wrong - it's light and very responsive - but it's not going to catapult you out of a corner or onto your arse with the same velocity for the same rider error/input that an R1 will and hurl you into the next corner before you realise what's happened.

    This doesn't mean you can't get into trouble on "more forgiving" bikes ... just that their level of power and responsiveness gives you more of a margin to correct any errors you may make, and as such time to learn.
     
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  16. Very good and accurate advise... But I'll put it simply get a GSXR600
     
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  17. You'd be hard pressed to convince me a "more forgiving" bike sets you back in skills development.

    Keep your eye on the pink Yam 250, no. 30, up against the big bikes.

     
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  18. You can still learn and get things very right on a forgiving bike. Many people can tell stories of having some random rider clean them up in the twisty stuff on an older, underpowered machine that should never have been able to catch them let alone take them, and found out later it was an old guy or some slip of a girl who just totally out rode them. Forgiving bike but skilled rider. Still a potent combo.
    An UNforgiving bike is one that tries to kill you if you're off by just a fraction. A forgiving bike warns you about your transgression but usually gives you the chance to try again.
     
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  19. It lets you see other bikes
     
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  20. I gotta get me one of them
     
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