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wet greasy road+too much power=bad outcome

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Sweeris, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. Hi all, As some of you know I have had my new bike for 3 and a half weeks. In the time I had it I only ridden my new bike in the wet 3 or 4 times. Each time I'm quite nervous on it as I know things can get very bad very quickly on the bike.

    This morning on the way to work, it started raining. I thought dont worry about it just ride carefully. The next intersection I had to turn right on to a 80 kph road. I always loved this intersection. When I got to the intersection I just missed the green. Sat there waited for the green and when it turned green started the turn lean in a tiny bit. All when well until it came for me to straighten up. I know I put a little more power than I would in the wet but I thought it should accelerate out just fine. The next thing I knew was the rev just jump straight up and the bike started to go sideways on me. My right leg came off the peg in the process of the bike going sideways. Before I could think what to do I already shut the throttle and the bike was just wiggling under me. After everything is settled I just powered on and accelerated away normally..

    From the incident I now know how quick things can get really bad on the bike :roll: . But still I also know that this incident was about 90% avoidable. I learnt a few things from it, like-how slippery the road can be when it just started raining.

    There was one thing that I know I did wrong. I shouldnt have shut the throttle as soon as my bike started sliding. This could have caused me to high side.

    But at least I get another chance to correct my mistake without a repair bill.... :)
  2. I'm not convinced you did the wrong thing. A high side more often happens when a sliding tyre regains grip by itself. You may well have shut the throttle too quickly, but you still need to close it - in a controlled fashion if you get the chance - to some extent to get the tyre to get some traction back.

    Either way, good save and glad you didn't trash it :)
  3. The most important thing in these situations is coming out looking like you meant to do it.
  4. And on a more sensible note, learn how to manage the warmth in your tyres in such conditions. A bit of hard acceleration and braking can get enough heat into soft tyres that they generally stick pretty well in the wet.
  5. whew!...that was close, mate...
    Well done for not tossing the new bike down the road....and as you siad - learn from the experience...mainly...wait until you are fully upright before you gas it, and even then, watch out for the road camber...even in a straight line the camber of the road can toss you off if you get the rear spinning up, and are'nt careful with it.
  6. Phew....i'm glad there is good news at the end

    I like loz' thinking.
  7. My real close call on my new bike :roll:

    Luckily I had the same experience on my cbr250(in the same condition) but I didnt remember it going so bad so quickly. On the smaller bike I had time to think what I should do next like should I leave the power on or slowly close it. Where as this bike it felt like it just bites me.

    I'll have to be abit more careful.
  8. From my experience, consistently saving rear end slides (wet or dry) is largely dependent upon how you began sliding in the first place.

    Most people will ride trying to avoid losing the rear end. They will get through the corner with minimal throttle, then open it up once they've almost stood the bike up. By this time you don't want to feel like a goose slooowly rolling the throttle on, so you get into a habit of opening it up in a fashion which isn't conducive to saving a slide if it does occur. If the rear does begin to slide, with that throttle control you WILL need to back off the throttle to avoid a certain low side, if you do it very quickly you get a wobble (maybe kicked out of the seat a little) and no highside, if you do it slow you may either back off enough to ease out of the slide, too much and high side, or not enough and still lowside.

    The earlier you get on the throttle, the smoother you have to be, and it's a much longer period of time from opening the throttle to full throttle, with the throttle matched to the traction all along. With this down pat, the rear slides in a much more predictable fashion, and your throttle position is at the perfect % to either halt opening to stop the slide, or keep squeezing it open as you pick up the bike to lay a big blackie. The biggest thing that getting on the throttle early does, even if you're not riding near the limit like described, is stop you getting greedy at corner exit. Getting greedy with the throttle is what will throw you.

    Having said all that, if you hit a patch with bad traction or the rear hits a dip in the road, a big sudden slide will ensue and again you WILL have to back off, often with mixed results. :cry:

    Avoiding the greedy post corner throttle grab is a good idea for everyone. Practicing slides is a good idea on a track with someone elses bike. But the theory is the same.

    Does this ring true with any of the litre bike racers? I'd be curious to see how experiences vary with another 100hp.
  9. I'm not a racer, but it's true for me, Dev...and Pinx will vouch for this, but I spend a fair bit of time over winter, actually allowing the rear end to spin up under varying conditions.
    Usually an off camber section of road is enough to get things squirrely in a straight line just on power, and that has allowed me to get some insight into what "my" bike is likely to do.

    Coming out of corners I am quite gentle under power until I am more or less upright, but I do feed it on gradually so if anything goes sth, I have a hope of controlling it....I've found that the more I have the power setting beyond the ultimate grip of the tyre when it breaks lose, the more you are going to have to get off it, when it let's go, as the engine tries to catch up with the power settings....if you happen to be cranked over at the time you will immediately run wide in your efforts to correct the direction of the bike, and that, combined with getting off the throttle, then the more likelyhood of a high-side occuring methinks.

    And for my experience there seems to be a limit. If the tail goes beyond a ceretain point (seems around 10deg), it is VERY difficult to correct...by the time you do, it's too late. under that, I seem capable of keeping control and recovering.

    Of course...that's when I am ready for it...if I was just riding normally and it happened unexpededly, I might not be so lucky.

    In general, when I'm just out riding in the wet, I use the throttle conservatively whether in a corner or riding straight up, since it is easy to force it beyond the grip levels.

    But I will say also, that I am able to get a pretty good amount of throttle going before it breaks lose...easily enough to leave most things behind. Under normal riding I can ride comfortably without worrying about it, and know that if I hit the gas, I can "play".

    Is that the kind of thing you were wondering about Dev.?

  10. Good save Sweeris.

    Great points Devo.

    Bikes need traction to keep power harnessed. If you give it a fist full, you get hard acceleration up until the revs and speed match the throttle opening. If the traction is lost or exceeded in the early part of the heavy acceleration, then the rear can spin up pretty quickly (coz it has low/no load) so if caught off gaurd, things can get out of shape rather quickly.

    I remember one of my first heavy handed throttle straight line experiences... it was a glorious sunny day, I exited a servo and gunned it with abandon down the driveway and onto the road. Within 5m of the driveway, I rode over a gravel filled road hole about the size of a manhole cover. Front wheel went over it with no problems, but the rear was another story. In the time the rear wheel hit one edge of the patch to the other, the rear lost traction and spun up to high revs so that I was given a serious bucking bronco moment when the spinning wheel reconnected with the road. SR#1 kicked in and I rolled off, then the brain kicked in and I rolled back on to a lower setting to keep the bike moving. Reducing the throttle would have been better because the harsh throttle inputs just gave my unsettled bike something else to deal with.

    Anywayz, the point is that the bike got surpisingly out of shape in the dry because of a moment of lost traction and a heavy throttle. Now I feed the throttle in almost always... even more so in the wet.

    Treat these beasts with respect folks.
  11. As much as most of us hate it, I found getting caught out in the rain from time to time one of the most eye opening experiences as to just how much grip there is available when riden carefully on a non greasy road. After a day out on wet roads, I could feel every tiny slip of the rear tyre and every change in road surface and therfore learn to modulate throttle a lot better. Its good to feel a small loss of traction without having to rev the bike hard and without a huge lean angle on. I soon learnt that I was (and still am) a bit of a nancy in the dry in comparison. :(

  12. Yep, it's true. Wet roads are slippery, and traction is reduced.
  13. yesterday I went to pick up my new bike from the dealer and it was raining and very wet so he recommended I wait another day cause of the new tires and I wouldnt know the throttle and I could easily loose traction and damage my new beautiful bike ...

    so I was just sitting there looking at it waving angry hands at the weather outside :(

    I guess it was a smart decision ... I guess ... hmm
  14. I would have done the same thing if I was picking up my new bike...