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Weighting pegs part 1 query

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by robsalvv, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. I have another spin on the perennial tip/question of loading/weighting up pegs, not answered by any thread before.

    I'm well aware of the potential for this thread to end in flames... so I'm keeping this OP (which is part of a bigger question) out of the realms of personal preferences/positions and it's being posed by way of an analogy.

    I have a question about an aspect of bike stability, so here's an analogy to kick off the thinking.

    On some level, a bike can be modelled like a pogo stick - You have a point contact with the ground - equivalent to tyre contact patch. You have a spring - equivalent to suspension. You have stirrups - equivalent to pegs and you have a handle - which for this exercise I'm making equivalent to the seat.

    Still with me?? Hope so.

    When I watched my neice jumping up and down on her pogo stick recently, I tried a little experiment with her and I saw that she was more stable if most of her weight was being transferred to the pogo stick via the stirrups rather than with her weight being mostly supported via the handle.

    To me this makes sense.

    Though her centre of gravity is NOT lowered by simply weighting the stirrups, her primary support point is the stirrups, which means that her weight has to be acting on the pogo stick at the stirrups and IMO the pogo stick was more stable by virtue of that weight force being closer to the contact point/ground.

    Anyone have a contrary view?


  2. You're right with the pogo stick example, care to expound how you'd follow this through to a bike?

    With a pogo stick you're jumping up and down, and the whole thing works on vertical force. Bikes are far more complex.

    JohnnyO was telling me that he hangs half his foot off the inside peg going into a corner, as he uses that foot to shove the bike down into the corner. I can't see how that's of any advantage - ride along and stomp one peg after the other and the effect is minimal. Countersteering gets the bike over far quicker.

    Steadily pushing the *outside* peg in a tight corner, however, can help to apply a little extra weight to the rear wheel - and from on top, which can help aid traction. It also pushes the body towards the inside of the turn, allowing the bike to function with less lean angle. I've found that to be a useful bit of technique.
  3. Ummm, yes, you are suppoosed to weight the pegs for steering but to try and keep your body from acting like a pendulum and inducing a low frequency weave caused from the wind on the upper body when riding in a straight line is near impossible.
  4. Loz... keep the bike stuff at bay for now...

    A bike is more complex - but at a simplified level, IMO, the analogy is still valid...

    And this is not a question about steering inputs... it's a question about bike stability...
  5. Go ahead then... Or are you starting a pogo stick club?

    Jason would love one... Wouldn't even need the handles at the top!
  6. A pogo-stich does not have a seat (which is where your weight must be on a bike... load bearing on the bikes center line) and does not have the affects of 200kph winds forcing on it.
  7. This weighting the inside/outside pegs thing really does my head in.

    I am sure it helps while well cranked over, but I have real trouble weighting the outside peg (I guess like the theory goes) while hanging of the bike nearing maximum lean for any given corner. Part of the problem is that it feels easier to wieght the inside peg for me anyway. Because as you hang off, the angle between your arse and the inside peg decreases as the angle to the outside peg increase?

    Make sense?

    I may try to adjust my body position on the bike to help weight the outside peg more while a maximun lean and see what effect it has. Maybe carrying higher corner speeds and therefore g-forces will help in this regard.

    When I do a SBK School I may quiz them about using body position and the correct pegs to load up during a corner.

    Marks heads off to drink 7 beers to stop the headache...
  8. Do it without holding the handlebars and see what happens :) No, try it with only one hand on the bars, I don't want to responsible for anyone getting hurt.
  9. Countersteering is a much more efficient and quicker way to get the bike on its side though, surely? The effect seems pretty minimal and I've never read about or heard of anyone else using that technique.
  10. How does Rossi do it???

    Do MotoGP riders or WSB riders worry about weighting pegs? If not then maybe there really is nothing in it...
  11. MotoGp riders (and 500 riders before them) weight pegs a lot as their front wheel is often in the air or at least very unweighted...countersteering doesn't work there
  12. Depends whether you're talking gentle turns on the road or getting around a race track corner as fast as you can.

    Countersteering is the correct thing to do to initiate the turn but excess force on the bars can induce tankslappers plus you need to get your center of gravity as low as you can (as per hanging off) for faster corner speeds, what better way than to have all your body weight on the pegs.

    A lot of racers don't really know the technical reasons behind what they do.

    Man, I don't have time to write a whole book here, I will run a race school for free for Netriders soon.
  13. Put Shauny and I down as your first students!!
  14. A lot of riders have said to me that they want to do a track day with me, I think I'll run a 'theory' classroom first then we'll go to a track.

    I don't know everything but I'm sure everyone will come away with something of value..... and it won't cost a cent :grin:
  15. I'd be in it, fo sheezy.
  16. Not so much as it being free, more so that it will be hosted by someone thats easy to talk to and knows what hes talking about without being patronising.
  17. :oops: Thanks, shucks
  18. Don't let IK hear that loading pegs lowers the C.O.G... Loading pegs definitely does not... I'm convinced of that now.

    Well, it's obvious that my part 1 part 2 idea isn't going to hold!! So might as well go for it.

    Granted there are limitation in the pogo stick analogy but I was using it to suggest that when leaned over in a corner, a bike should be more stable with loaded pegs as compared to the scenario where a rider sits with all their weight on the seat.

    The second part of the question was to tie this in with cornering... but looks like we're off and running on that point.:)
  19. On the other issue about weighting the inside or outside pegs, body position etc, there are some great threads on sportbikes.net about weighting pegs.

    The consensus over there is: outside peg at turn initiation to give a stronger counter steer, then inside peg in the turn with weight shift, then back to weighting the outside peg on the drive out of the turn.

    I'm with Mark... it's all inside peg for me when I'm leaned off.

    ...I'd be in for a "race" school too...