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[WA] Parking in the CBD - again

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by pshields, May 20, 2007.

  1. Hi all,

    I know that CBD Parking has been discussed before

    e.g. Netrider topic=29931 (not 5 posts yet so can't post a link!)

    but I felt it is time for a sustained campaign for a fair go from the Perth City Council.

    I have recently got back on a bike after a few years absence and found that when I commute to the CBD for work it is a
    nightmare finding daily parking in Perth.

    We all know that motorcycles and scooters are cheaper, pollute less, take up less space and have major positive impact on global warming compared to cars. Yet we are still treated like 2nd class citizens.

    City councils should be actively promoting the use of motorcycles rather than either ignoring us or doing the bare minimum to keep us quiet.

    Looking into the situation more deeply some things are just not right.

    Motorcycles are nearly 5% of car registrations yet there only 1.3% of published long-term parking spaces available for us.

    Scooters and Motorcycles take up between 10-20% of a car's space yet we are charged 50% of car rates.

    Using just one parking centre (Convention Centre) if we got 5% of car bays and charged 30% of car fees we would both increase revenue to the council by tens of thousands of dollars and reduce greenhouse gasses by several thousand kilos a year as well.

    I have written to the City of Perth on the subject and if others feel strongly about it feel free to do so as well. If you want a copy of my submission on the subject please email me at pshields {at} sportscoach . com . au (again can't post links)

    This is probably an issue in other states (except possibly Victoria). Feel free to alter what I have sent in my letter and send it to your council as well.

    Let's try and get a fair go for motorcyclists. Just Once!

  2. we are very lucky in VIC to get free footpath parking, so no worries about bike parking spaces or the lack of em, we just have to follow a few simple common sense guidelines (and what parking spaces we have are free anyway)

    good luck with your campain in perth, unfortunately most councils have the attitude that if they ignore you for long enough you will give up and go away.

    but as i said good luck and i hope it turns out well.

    BTW, welcome to the forum mate
  3. Yes it Victoria is better about motorcycle parking. I have also heard that Brisbane allows it in certain places as well.

    Based on another thread it looks like Sydney is going the same way. Hopefully the other capitals will follow.

    It never ceases to amaze me how long it takes for common sense to sink in.

    Thanks for the welcome. Appreciated.

  4. I read the other day (can't find the link), that the NSW gummint say Sinney is going to go all 'scooter friendly' for environmental reasons. I wonder what that means for bikes generally, and whether it can be used a lever in other cities like Perth. Does anybody know any more about this statement?
  5. Incitatus,

    It is a great thing what Sydney is doing, but we need to wait until the new policies are made public to really tell. I have pointed out to the Perth City Council that Sydney is moving this direction, but it is hard to tell with a bureaucracy whether your comments have even been heard much less have any impact!

    There was another thread with the link on it. I will track it down and post it.


    All the same story. Not much information but positive never the less.


  6. Paul

    I was recently a participant in a discussion forum regarding parking in Perth. Specifically in the CBD but also in general terms about greater Perth.

    I will be completely frank....there is absolutely ZERO thought of motorcyclists in the parking planning for our fair city. And i am not exaggerating here, when i raised the issue of motorcycle parking I was initially fobbed off completely.

    After they literally ignored my statement about the lack of planning for motorcycle parking spaces, I repeated my request after first thanking them for ignoring me.

    Anyway I'm digressing a little.

    Personally I do not feel that footpath parking would work in Perth, mainly because I think that generally our paths are not wide enough. Nevertheless I pointed out to them that Melbourne have it and Sydney are introducing it.

    My own suggestion is that (and i have mentioned this before on these boards) the councils remove the last car parking bay approaching intersections in each direction and replace them with motorcycle bays. This would have a dual benefit a) improve vision at all intersections for all road users thereby reducing accidents and b) increase the number of motorcycle parks.

    I was told in no uncertain terms that the purpose of this parking forum was to address the issues of CAR parking in Perth.

    Bottom line....yes you are right, nothing is going to happen without a great deal of letter writing to the members and making our voice heard.
  7. Hi,

    Thanks for the reply, although disappointing news about the council's view on mototcycle parking.

    Great idea on the 'last parking bay approaching intersections'. I noticed one of these appeared a few days ago on William Street at the corner of St Georges Terrace (maybe they are listening to you!).

    I still haven't had a reply from the council apart from my letter has been passed on to the 'Manager Allocations' for a response. Any ideas what their role would be?

    I want to create more action but have difficulty getting other riders interested in the issue. I suppose there are lots of issues (eg wire rope barriers) that we can get involved in that this is low down on the priority for most people.

    I would like more letters to the council followed by some press coverage followed by an hour or two where we legally overuse a car-park (eg Convention Centre) to highlight our issues. I can't get much traction with other riders so my next step may be a note on bikes parked in the city.

    Have you any ideas?


  8. Hey Paul

    There are a couple of difficulties as i see it.

    First and foremost is simply the fact that cap parks generate a lot of money for local councils. So convincing them to change something that is already a top money spinner is difficult. They just dont see motorcycles as a problem.

    99.99% of people drive cars, so its probably not completely unreasonable for most of the spaces to be for cars.

    Personally I think the best way to attack this is along the 'environmental' benefits of getting people out of cars. The simple congestion argument just seems so logical to me. The idea that they could fit 3 or 4 bike parks in the area of 1 car park. If they charged bikes 1/2 the car rate, yet fit in 3 or 4 more bikes than they would have cars, then the councils would actually make MORE money.

    I reckon is we could get them to understand it from that point of view, then we might have a chance.

    Yes we do need a collective front to push for these sort of causes. Unfortunately the MRA in WA is effectively non-existent. So I guess letters are the best way to go.
  9. Hi,

    Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated.

    I agree with your views on the way to attack the issue and so, amongst other things I have sent them, I did a case study on the Convention Centre parking facility.

    In this I assumed they charge us 1/3rd of the price for cars and we take 1/4 of the space. Both are very generous assumptions as they currently charge us 50% and you can get at least 5 bikes/scooters into one car space (taking into account access ways).

    I caculated that they would generate $6000 more revenue assuming 90% bike bay utilisation and $24,000 more revenue if they charged us 50% like they do now.

    On the global warming front, not counting cost of building a car versus a bike and the benefits of less travel time (and time spent stuck in queues/jams), converting to an approapriate number of bike bays would save at least 30,000 kgs of greenhouse gas a year.

    I still haven't got a response but at least I have had a shot.


  10. For those still interested I have now scanned a copy of the first response I received from the PCC. It mentions the Manager Approvals although I don't know what they do.

    They are starting off passing the buck but we will see where it lands


  11. Paul,
    some links with (possibly) useful information to back your case up.

    Victorian Motorcycle Parking guidelines 231kb PDF file

    Submission to Victorian Congestion Inquiry 370kb PDF file

    from the Congestion submission

    Given that from four to six motorcycles can fit into a standard car parking space it
    would make sense for councils to be encouraged to give up a single car parking space
    in most shopping areas. Having convenient parking would be a major factor in
    encouraging use of motorcycles for shopping trips. The carrying capacity of most
    modern scooters is surprisingly high – particularly with the fitting of a top box or set
    of panniers – and they often provide a reasonable alternative to using a car for
    shopping trips.

    For outer suburban areas, powered two wheeled vehicles can be combined with public
    transport. Currently many commuters travel by car to outer suburban stations where
    they park and travel by train into the city. Encouraging motorcycle use here would
    assist in easing parking issues as well as creating less congestion in these local areas.
    A drawback is that riders need to store protective clothing as most riding gear is bulky
    and awkward to carry once off the vehicle. Lockers should be made available for
    storage of riding equipment at a small charge to encourage this mixed mode

    The City of Manningham here in Melbourne has picked up on this this week(although it would have been nice for them to have credited the source instead of claiming it as their idea) :evil:

    their media release today:

  12. Tony,

    Thanks for the links, much appreciated.

    I have just read your submission. Great work. When will the results of the congestion inquiry be available?

    I would like to get some of the refererences from the back of the report. The ones I tried were out of date. If you get a chance it would be helpful if the you email me any of the reports you may have (paul.shields(at)sportscoach.com.au)

    The Motorcycle Parking guidelines were also useful. I haven't seen them before and they certainly show how cars, motorcycles and pedestrians can co-exist.

    I have an rough analysis of the impact of increasing the number of off-street parking bays if you are interested. It is mostly local to WA as you guys can park on the footpath. It does indicate however that decreasing the cost of motorcycle parking, increasing the number of bays and advertising their availability should both increase revenue for the council and increase availability of car bays.

    Thanks again for the links.

  13. The Congestion report basically was a bit of a wank.
    They acknowledged the motorcycle submissions but didn't come up wtit anything, however the new Minister has a copy of them and what was going to be a new Motorycle Safety Strategy will now be a Motorcycle TRANSPORT and Safety Strategy - it will explicitly consider issues such as road-sharing and other issues as well as safety.

    The best link (Marcus Wigan's stuff) is in two PDF files.

    First part - reports and recommendations 996kb PDF file

    the Appendices Stats and raw data 3Mb PDF

    I'll see what else I can come up with. The Hurt Report and the British report I borrowed in hard copy from Monash Uni. Try the local Uni libraries - they may have them. (you can look at them in the library without being a student).

    Good luck!
  14. Tony,

    Another couple a great sources of information.

    Given the bombardment of logic and evidence that local authorities receive I am amazed how long it takes them to react.


  15. This is a copy of the second response I have received. Apart from the fact it has again been passed around there is some good news.

    Firstly the Convention Centre parking facility will be getting more motorcycle bays. Great for the riders who cram about 25 motorbikes into the 19 bays that are marked!

    Secondly he confirms that utilisation of long term motorcycle parking is low and that by implication if it were higher we would get more bays.

    It is probably low because of the high price to park there and that nobody is aware of the availability.



  16. Hi all,

    A guy on another foruum (Bill) has now organised a date and time for a footpath motorcycle parking photoshoot. It is Monday the 4th June outside the Intercontinental Hotel at 305 Murray Street, Perth between 8:30am - 9:00am. It's a bit early but at least there is less chance of coping a ticket.

    The idea is to show how footpath parking can be done. Tony E has helped us out with the Victorian footpath parking guidelines. We will then ask for a trial in one area for a few months. If there are no complaints then we have a strong case.

    Bill has also spoken with Perth City Councillor Scaffidi and she fully supports the idea. She won't be there on Monday but has agreed to raise it again at the council. We have inside support, a good plan all we need know is a few bikes and a some good photos.

    If anybody is available at that time it would be great to see you.


  17. I'll do my damnedest to be there. BMW, Ducati, Scooter?, decisions decisions...
  18. The Duc would be the most photogenic. :LOL:

    (just don't take the quad :roll: )
  19. It will be great to see you there. The BMW or Duc would look best but the scooter would probably be more appropriate as a commuter vehicle. I don't think we have one coming so if you brought that it would help. Don't feel you have too, just come with what you want.


  20. Ok, I'll scoot over...