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VTR 250 timing chain noise

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by ducati_davidson, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. Hi all i'm after some advise.

    I own a 05' Honda VTR 250 and lately it's developed a ticking noise in the motor when cold and still lightly there when warm.

    I've been told that it is the timing chain's causing this, The bike has 54'000 km's on it and it's always on the highway's, Is this expected mileage to be doing timing chains? Could the timing tensioners be causing this ? are the timing tensioners prone to fail on these bikes ? being operated by oil pressure do they give much trouble ?

    I've got the genuine honda manual i downloaded some time ago, being a truck and car mechanic i do all my servicing my self on the bike but i've never done a timing chain on one, can anybody give any tips on changing them over?
    Will i need a special chain breaker\joiner to remove and replace the timing chains ?
    Do i need to remove the engine from the bike and completely split the crankcase ? ( didn't look like it in the manual)

    Team moto Honda quoted me $144 per timing chain and $374 per tensioner

    can anybody else suggest somewhere else cheaper to buy the parts? are the parts available non genuine ?

    If anyone could answer my questions it would be a real help
  2. I would check its not your oil or valve clearances first but in saying that it will be a peice of pizz to change the timing chains and tensioners with your mechanical background.

    You dont have to take out the engine. The chains will just slide off when you remove tensioners and camshafts and with a bit of fiddling you should be able to fit the new ones over the crank gears. Beware the manuals procedure for timing, its silly and confusing make your own timing marks and be aware where the cam lobes should be pointing.
  3. thanks for the advise. What would you recommend oil wise to be using in this bike?

    I was using Motul 5100 10w40 semisyn and genuine filters but one of the local bike shops told me not to use that in my bike as it doesn't suit a daily commuter and it's more only of a race bike oil and it breaks down over time.

    He sold me shell advance SX 15w50
  4. Your oil sounds fine as long as it regularly changed which I presume it has. Unless ofcourse the noise happened when switching to different oil.

    My next step would be to confirm where the noise is coming from you dont want to rip it all down and find it was a noise coming from the clutch or something vibrating/rubbing.

    It may even be a pretty normal engine noise is it really that excessive? Maybe the colder weather is having an affect.

    Next I would check the tappet clearances and any wear or mushrooming of the contact points. While your there you can even check the chains for tension and if your really keen take the tensioners out and test them. I think from memory the manual explains.

    Otherwise you could always try one of those honey like syrup additives for oil that sometimes quieten old engines down.
  5. It could be as simple as a leaking exhaust gasket..... but assuming it's not.

    In my experience timing chains don't tick, they go GGRRRRRRRRR, usually when rolling off the throttle.

    At 54000kms it must be due a top end check up at the very least. The manual should tell you how to measure the timing chain to see if it is in spec, or stretched too much. Check valve clearances while you are in there.

    Putting the engine on a bench will make life a buttload easier, but you can probably do it in the bike if you want.

    I don't know much about VTR250 CCT's except to say -DAMN they are expensive! Maybe you can clean/service them? This is interesting http://www.vtr250.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1149292533 and this http://www.motorbikecity.com/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60634

    To replace cam chains you will need a breaking/riveting tool http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HEAVY-DUTY-C...em&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item335c9b93b2 if you are careful these do soft rivet drive chain links as well. Hook the new chain into the old chain and pull it through, make sure you dont drop it as that would be a PITA. Before breaking the old one, and once you have pulled the new one through, cable tie the chain to the cam sprockets so it doesnt fall back into the motor. Cheaper timing chains here http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/Honda/V...rket/98-01/picture/Cam_Timing_Chain_DID___ID/

    With your experience and the manual in front of you this should be a snap.
  6. The clutch was slipping a couple thousand kms ago, replaced it the very day it started slipping and changed the oil and oil filter after doing the clutch, wilst I was doing that I also adjusted the valve clearances.
    Now before I did the clutch and valves I could just hear this noise and it was very minor and it was unchanged by the work.
  7. I have on '05 VTR with about 18k that makes that same ticking sound when cold/still warming up. I would love to know what it is, let us know how it goes!

    I think it started after I changed the oil, but I'm not sure. It's due for another change so I'll see if that fixes it.
  8. If it goes away when it gets warm I would say tappets.

    Cam chain noise tends to disappear when you rev a bike.

    also if it does turn out to be the tensioner, look for after market manual ones. Probably about $100 each and they don't go again.

    54Mm is getting up there for a revvy 250.
  9. I get that noise when its really cold but it seems to go away once the engine warms up so i just put it down to a "peculiarity" of the bike.

    Would this mean damage or anything if I left it?
  10. Depends on so many factors. Need to keep an ear out to see if it gets any worse.

    I've never heard of a cam chain getting so worn that you break it or damage a valve, but I suppose it is possible you could wear through a guide to the point of seizing a chain. The noise would be obvious well before that however.
  11. I've never heard of one breaking, but I have seen a couple skip a few teeth and mess up the valve timing. I've also seen one that chainsawed its way through the side of its tunnel through the barrels. Nothing that a prayer to Araldite, Goddess of Broken Stuff couldn't fix though :grin:. In the UK, we took our rat bikes seriously.
  12. Hi all well time for a bit of an update on this problem..

    I've resorted to using public transport :eek: so i can find the time to investigate this noise.

    The most in-depth work I've done on this bike is valve adjustments and a clutch replacement, so i was diving into the unknown a little but it wasn't as bad as i expected


    once pulled down i discovered that the Hyd timing tensionoirs were maxed out on there travel so im replacing the timing chains but my other concern is that there is some noticeable wear on the timing guides attached to the Hyd tensionors.

    Hyd Tensionors in question

    the wear on the tensioner guides


    also i noticed there's another guide for the rear cylnder into the block but i couldn't see if it was removable without splitting the crankcase

    honda genuine say that these Hyd tensionors are around the $370ea mark approx, now i don't have that kind of cash just lying around, are the guides available separate to the tensionors ? and are they available aftermarket ?

    as for the timing chains the best price i've gotten so far was $100 ea for D.I.D. and i comes with a joiner so i can split the old chain and attach the new chain to it and pull it through the engine (if that's the correct way to go about it).

    gotta say for a little bike with high Kms it's VERY clean inside just goes to show that regular servicing is very critical.....

    hopefully all goes well.
  13. If you have hydraulic tensioners, then I would guess there is nothing wrong with them. The ratchet types are the ones that tend to fail. Check model specific sites.

    The wear on those followers looks normal for ones that need replacing. My guess would be change the chains and followers.
  14. Assuming the hydraulic tensioners are holding oil, locking in place and have good spring tension. I think your on the money.

    Hopefully the guides can be bought seperate, you would think at that price they would. May have to pressure the parts interpreter. Im not sure if the guides can be bought aftermarket, but they might go under different names like followers, slippers, runners.
  15. Parts are all ordered

    DID timing chains $100ea x2
    Cam chain followers $64ea x2
    Oil filter non genuine $7
    Motul T5100 10W40 semisyn $65
    The timing chains were available overnight but the followers are on backorder on a slow boat from Japan.........crap
  16. Just wondering how you are going with this
    I have had problems with my Spada which has a very similar engine. I have taken the tensioner out of the rear head as this was noisier. Fortunately my follower is in better condition than yours but I am wondering about the chain. There is no mention in the manual I have about when you need to replace the chain and it is not listed as a reason for excessive noise.
    Have you had a chance to compare the old chain with the new one? Is it visibly stretched or worn?