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Victorian Road Toll +1 Monday - Rider Education Failure?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by jdkarmch, Aug 11, 2006.

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  1. I am dumbfounded as to how accidents like this keep happening.

    I don't know any of the facts.

    Is there something wrong with the Rider Education system? How does something like this happen?

    Anyone know the specifics? A 49 year old would I assume have a lot of driving experience and be somewhat mature. But, I fail to see how he would have run into a pole.

    As a note - can we hold off on the "Condolences"? The issue is about how to stop this type of stuff happening - not to concentrate on this specific rider and the pain being suffered by his family and friends.....
  2. I was speaking to someone on this ride yesterday and he told me what had happened.
    They think the rider may have had a heart attack or similar. He failed to take a right hand bend, failed as in went straight ahead with no attempt to brake or anything.
    His mates tried CPR for about 20 mins while the ambos were responding and they could not revive either.
    If you want any other details I have a couple more.
  3. Hey Guys,

    Another sad bit of news.

    Why does it happen, Who knows? People crash daily, people die daily. There is no reason behind it, there is not understanding and there is no justification. Unfortunately, and sadly, this is life.

    My opinion - dont try to analyse everything. Just be happy that you are alive and healthy and happy. Because, one day, your time will also come. I only prey we all live to 100 nand die in our sleep - but that is not the case. I guess, in a way, I am xpressing my personal fears that I battle and struggle with daily. Am I afraid of riding - YES, I am. Why? I guess all the accidents I have experienced and have seen makes me sometimes wonder if it is worth it. Problem is, when I ride I enjoy it.

    The craziest thing for me - lately, I have been avoiding riding. Yes, it is fear but it is also feeling uncomfortable.

    Alas, these are just my thoughts and personal advise - dont over analyse, it creates more frustration that it resolves.
  4. If it actually was a heart attack or stroke... then wouldn't the guy have preferred to go that way out enjoying a ride instead of in the office? We're guessing, but how many people do just drop dead at the office? Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease... fill it up 'cos no-one gets out alive.
  5. Rider training doesn't teach you how to tip a bike over and go round a corner.
  6. What I am a bit dumbfounded by is how you can extrapolate a tragic and unfourtunate incident with almost no hard facts available and some how blame the rider education system?

    Thats drawing an extremely long bow in my opinion.

    Maybe you should have held off a little bit until better information was at hand before pushing forward whatever current political agenda you have a taste for.

    Not everything has a political spin. Sometimes there are just terrible accidents. Blame it on chaos theory, I don't know.
    My CONDOLENSCES go out to the rider and his family.
  7. Yeh I must admit this thread is kinda pointless, firstly, do you really believe the crap that is fed through newspapers and the media these days?

    The majority of it is sensationalist journalism and very far from the real facts. Because of this, how can anyone possibly think that it may be rider education failing.
  8. How can you say to hold off on the condolences. Isnt that the important part of this. A fellow rider died and you wanna try and turn it into something political with out any facts.
    I send my condolences to the rider and his family also.
  9. + 1. Condolences to family anf friends.

    Your opinionated grandstanding/soapboxing to turn everything into a political/government agenda or bashing with little or no information is getting extremely tiring and boring John.
  10. +1 with everyones comments except yours John.

    There is no better reason as to why you should only ever open your mouth to put food in it.

    I'm stunned that at your age and supposed maturity you speak without first thinking.

    Shame really.

    Condolences to family and friends.
  11. Saw this mentioned briefly on the local news last night but no mention of it in the local paper today (at least not on their online version). All the official Police statement says is that the bike veered off the road - name of the rider hasn't been released yet though. Speculating here but I'd say given the size of the group and where they were riding it was probably the local Ulysses club - I see them around that area regularly. Though could also be the local Bandidos club. I WILL give MY condolences to friends and family - it's possible the rider could be someone I know, or be close to someone I know.
  12. +1 But then you know that already...
  13. Thanks for the comments guys.

    Mr Moderator - can we lock this forum now? From the comments made - it seems pointless to go on.

    I said I didn't know the facts.

    I think that there are a lot of riders losing it in corners. The point I was seeking discussion on was - how do we reduce the frequency of this? Is better training needed?

    Everyone seems to be happy to accept that its a fact of life, and that there is nothing that can be done to change the situation. If that is true - then let's vote on it........

    It makes sense that this one may have been a heart attack. At 49 - its a bit young.....

    They say bad news comes in 3's. So which one of us is it going to be next?????

    I seem to recall that there was a run of bike accidents around the same time last year.

    Condoloences - I don't even know the guys name, or whether his family is likey to read this. But, if they are I can assure them that I am upset that yet another member of the motorcycle community has been lost - and ...... :( :(
  14. ...oh I don't know about the -ve posts...

    We've had riders lose it in corners as part of group rides [I was part of two groups directly where this happened... there have been others]. We explored the situations till we sawed sawdust to gain lessons/blame/fault for the rest of us to learn how not to do it again.

    JK may have drawn a long bow/jumped to a conclusion but a "why does this keep happening" train of thought IMO isn't unreasonable.

    Afterall, you don't get taught how to ride in a group OR corner OR how to appreciate good roadcraft when you get your L's... well apart from this specific incident, I reckon the broad question about rider education - and driver education for that matter, is valid.

    My condolensces too.
  15. Yep, agreed.
    No speculation or misinformation in Johns post, just a broad question for discussion. What's wrong with that?
  16. Thanks Rob,

    This was the issue I was trying to confirm - to see if others had the same train of thought as me. My post was triggered by the events of the last week. I had hoped that people wouldn't hop into me for raising it so soon after the accidents. If I waited, it would be forgotten - better to discus while it is still on our minds.

    What we all need to ask ourseves is - who taught us to ride? For most of us - it would be ourselves. I am almost 90% self taught and I would guess that most riders of my age would be the same. Newbies may be different - as Learner courses are more available now that compared to when I did "the easy simply show up answer a few questions - here is your licence, now go out and be careful that you don't kill yourself soon" test.
  17. can we please do as John has asked and lock this thread.
  18. +1

    Seemed like a reasonable request for a discussion/debate.
  19. I agree that that is a reasonable request. But it was about the intial post that "I" personally had an issue with.

    I personally would love to go and do some riding classes , such as the cornering courses, but time and money make it very hard for me to do. I am a very inexperienced rider, and i know my abilities or lack of, which is probably why i don't push my boundaries too far. If i come off there is a lot at stake, both in my home life and at work.
  20. Even if we show our zen powers and accept that death is part of life, you can bet that some tubby tenured buttwipe will use each and every accident as part of their research project, with the ultimate aim of lobbying for new regulations and thus justifying their existence.

    A heart attack at the 'bars is still, as far as I know, counted as a 'motorcycle death' and therefore it's an excuse to hurt us more.... so we can live, eat McDonalds, and die of diabetes like they want us to.
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