Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC Victorian Parliament RSC Inquiry into Motorcycle Safety – List of Demands

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Sir Ride Alot, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. The purpose of this thread is to make a list of our demands from the Motorcycle Safety Inquiry. That’s right demands!

    We come from all backgrounds, we all belong to families, we represent every part of the community, we work hard, we contribute to the economy and the community, we pay taxes, we pay the politicians’ and bureaucrats’ salaries, we vote and we are not weak. We come from a position of strength and power. This gives us the right to make demands.

    What do we want?

    We want

    • Increased funding to the training industry
    • Free fully funded voluntary training
    • Better and more frequent auditing of the training industry
    • The current Victorian GLS to be left alone as it is producing excellent results
    • Subsidised safety gear
    • The acceptance of international standards in relation to safety gear
    • Motorist eye tests every 3 years
    • The cessation and refund of the discriminatory motorcycle levy
    • The introduction of lane filtering
    • The ability to overtake on straight roads with solid white lines
    • A review into the appropriate length of double lines
    • Motorcycles be given a greater speed discretion by Victoria Police
    • Speed limits raised to appropriate and safer levels
    • The reintroduction of the 100kph state speed limit in rural areas including advisory signs
    • All rural roads to have bitumen shoulders of at least 50cm
    • The introduction of a Speed Improvement Strategy (SIS) for Victorian Roads
    • The cessation of harassment by Victoria Police
    • The retraining of police to aid them in overcoming their fear and stress when confronted by the fastest growing mode of transport in Victoria
    • The cessation of dangerous anti motorcycle propaganda by the TAC
    • The cessation of the TAC being political
    • The removal of WRB's and an investigation into why VicRoads allowed such a dangerous piece of equipment to be installed
    • Reduced registration fees
    • Technologies that sit between the rider and the motorcycle to be optional and the technologies not the rider to wear the full liability of any accidents
    • The introduction of legislated five year 150,000 km warranties as high quality motorcycles are safer
    • The introduction of junior trail bike licences. 7 to 12 year olds supervised up to 150cc’s and from 13 to 17 and 9 months unsupervised up to 250cc’s
    • Legislation introducing mandatory accident insurance cover and the mandatory payment of claims by insurers
    • The promotion of the benefits motorcycles provide to small business and regional towns and communities
    • The promotion of the benefits motorcycles provide to the environment including lower carbon emissions
    • The promotion of the benefits motorcycles provide to lowering congestion
    • The promotion of the benefits motorcycles provide to reducing expenditure on infrastructure
    • The recognition and promotion that motorcycles are a safe mode of transport
    • The recognition and promotion of the fact that people that ride motorcycles are the most advanced road user group.
    • The promotion of the benefits motorcycles provide to health, fitness and well being
    • A full investigation into the inappropriate lowering of the Reefton Spur speed limit that resulted in the spike of motorcycle fatalities during 2010. This should include whether VicRoads followed the correct procedures and whether Victoria Police had an involvement in the instigation. Criminal proceedings should also be looked at.

    When do we want it? Yesterday!

    Please feel free to add, delete and/or edit.
  2. Personally, I think the problem that we have as motorcyclists is that we have no unified achievable issues that we concentrate.

    I think that you should get it down to 5 issues max and make sure they are realistic.
  3. Firstly, well done Sir Ride Alot - I agree with all those demands. I think you've covered just about everything I could think of (y)

    Secondly, I disagree with you,Vertical C.

    The more 'demands' we state, the more our stance is reinforced as an increasingly developing part of Australia's mode of transport, of which we are a big part already. The more we 'push' for these demands the more we show we're serious and not just making 'requests'.

    Good job, SRA :)
  4. Chef there is one item I that I want to add to the list but darn it I just can't seem to recall what it was. Can you help me out? I think there was a picture getting around recently. :)
  5. But the first two are the same. If you get free training, that is increased funding.

    Some of them are unreasonable, such as the 150000km warranty, some dirt bikes couldn't do 1/10th of that, what would happen is that the manufacturers wouldn't offer them anymore, making it worse for riders.

    A scattergun approach makes us look like we are just on a rant about whatever annoyed us at the time.

    If you limit it to a short list you can also put some facts that would be able to justify your recommendation as well, which would increase its likelihood to be taken seriously. If you have a huge list then it is going to take a lot of work to get your facts together and clear.
  6. This kind of thing is always open to interpretation..and personal opinion.

    Seeing how the government and controlling authorities are already treating us, or more so, the lack of respect toward the motorcycling community by trying to 'remove' us off the roads, this post and others, courtesy of members such as Chef et al, are what is needed to show 'them' that 'WE' are not to be taken lightly...

    There are lots of similar threads to SRA's here, outlining the same thing. More or less in similar but slightly different terminology. Sir Ride Alot's post here (to stay on topic) covers many issues that will affect ALL OF US, not just Victorian riders. What WE should do is get on the bandwagon and 'ADD' to this list, where possible, so that we can (again) reinforce our existence and motivation/determination in continuing to be part of one of the greatest developing fraternities on the roads : Motorcycling.

    Whether it's a short list or a long list - they'll still try and tackle the ones they 'wish' to, if any at all. However, a short list will never have the impact of a much larger one. Basic psychology, and this is proven daily in our other organisations aside from motorcycling, take it from me.

  7. Really are you seriously going to ask for all of these things.....

    Overtaking over solid/double lines is a really stupid idea, what possible reason could there be to allow motorcycles a safety based exception?
    What safety justification could there possibly be for allowing a motorcycle to overtake on a blind corner over an unbroken line legal?

    Motorcyclists constantly say they are better "drivers" in general, so perhaps they should show these skills by learning how to control the speed of their machines. Controlling the speed of your vehicle is something that is fundamental, and having two wheels should not be a reason for us (solely) to be allowed a greater margin of error. I don't disagree with giving all users the same margin (you guys have it pretty rough down there).

    These make the requests look petty.

    There's some reasonable requests on there, but when you see things like the group quoted above it really makes the demands look silly, especially when it is supposed to be a motorcycle safety inquiry.

    My 2c.
  8. Agree strongly... hit the important ones.
  9. There is nothing wrong with making demands and the list is long due to the neglect by successive governments of motorcycle transport over many years.

    Far too often we get caught up in the technical side of things and whether something is wrong or right when in fact these two things do not exist. Wrong or right is what is socially acceptable or unacceptable at a given point in time. We used to burn witches.

    We also need a large list to draw upon when needed during arguments and questions that come from left field. People will try to discredit our submissions with total disregard as to whether they have merit or not. They will not play fair as is already evidenced in their submissions.

    The overtaking on double lines along a STRAIGHT section of road is acceptable and reasonable as the lines here in Vic have recently been extended on the sly and based on cars.

    Motorcycles are different vehicles and are far better vehicles than cars in many ways and this should be recognised and catered to especially when it comes to acceleration and manoeuvrability as it is a win win situation for all road users.
  10. You almost had me agreeing with you until this pearl, yes overtaking on a single white line I can fathom but what you are asking is nuts despite your good intention.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. They have extended doubles in many places and it is frustrating. Compare a fully loaded small hatchback car with roof racks and luggage and five people in the car with a 1.3 litre engine and skinny tires to a motorcycle. It is becoming so hard to overtrake these days.
  12. Should my turbo import which could leave my GS500 for dead in both acceleration and handling be given the right to overtake in the same situations. How about 100cc scooters?

    Still don't agree that it is a good thing but we are all entitled to opinions, however you should re-word that line as it doesn't read the way you have explained it (comp. science brain).

    from: The ability to overtake on solid white lines and on straight roads with double lines

    to: The ability to overtake on straight roads with solid white lines or double lines.
  13. Actually the old rule about solid white lines should return, so yes your turbo should be allowed to overtake if safe to do so... It used to be allowed to until a couple of years ago.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  14. Are you referring to the current motorcycle licensing system?

    I have just gone through the system (I'm not far off being fully licensed) and I must say it's rather inadequate. It seriously scares me to think of they way I rode when I first got my license - not because of being a 'young hoon' but simply because there is next to nothing in terms of appropriate training for on-road riding.

    It's simply too easy to get licensed. A simple one-day course that really doesn't push any boundaries in terms of skill required to ride was enough for my L's. Then followed by the P's test which hardly tested the extent of skill required to avoid serious accidents on our roads.

    The answer?

    There is a serious need for more extensive training (both on road and in closed training centers) to make new riders aware of the dangers we encounter on a daily basis. Training that makes them both aware of these dangers and how to avoid them. The only problem with this is that it would obviously make it a costly process to become a rider, perhaps government (or hell TAC) funded training programs?
  15. Where did you do your license Set?
  16. My L's were done at Decca training center, then my P's at HART. I hope my post didn't seem to be an attack on the training centers themselves (they were actually great for the length of time they were), instead the lack of content that can be fitted into a single day session, plus the test requirements themselves which are set by VicRoads.
  17. =D>=D>=D>=D>

    Well done on putting that list together Sir Ride Alot. Reading it, I struggled to find any points that I could disagree with.

    Its a great list - and all my dreams would come true if even 25% of these demands could be realised.
  18. Gotta agree with the others - 5 realistic goals would surely be better?

    A list that long appears rambly, a little mental, and could probably be aptly presented on a bit of cardboard written in texta.

    Well intentioned though!
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Nice work Sir Ride A Lot. That's a pretty thorough list however I agree with the others that there are too many demands.

    It's similar to that occupy-wall-street group that has a list of ridiculous demands. While making many demands that you are happy to lose is a useful negotiating tactic we are not currently at the stage where anyone has agreed to negotiate with motorcyclists and so too many items muddies the message.

    I also don't think that we have any grounds to demand special rules for motorcyclists. Things like "...Motorcycles be given a greater speed discretion by Victoria Police..." should read "...greater speed discretion...".

    Finally, I wouldn't be asking for "...The recognition and promotion that motorcycles are a safe mode of transport...". Cars aren't safe, public transport isn't safe, pedestrianism isn't safe. Nothing is safe. No one should have the expectation that they can go through life without risk or injury. This is an aspect of the beigification movement.

    I'd rather push for recognition that schemes like 'vision zero' are fundamentally flawed and cause unacceptable economic distress. Anything 'zero tolerance' is doomed to fail.

    My top five from that list would be as follows:
    1. Motorist license tests every 5 years (cars, bikes, everyone) for a nominal fee (e.g. $50, I don't expect it to be free, driving/riding is a privilege not a right).

    2. The cessation of the discriminatory motorcycle levy.

    3. The specific legalisation of lane filtering including a media campaign to educate other motorists.

    4. The recognition and promotion that motorcycles are a legitimate mode of transport

    5. The cessation of the TAC being political (in that it is either a mandated insurance organisation and apolitical, or a non-mandated private company and allowed to lobby as it chooses).

    I do not support subsidies for things like safety equipment as I am a small-government type of guy and believe that everyone should pay their own way. I would support recognition of other accreditations (i.e. Helmets with tests other than Australian Standards) to open up the market. This may have the side effect of reducing the compliance cost and therefore reducing the sale price.
  20. I like these a lot better, succinct and achievable. Although 1 might not be popular, but I think it is doable.

    The only one that I would add is that I would like to see a study into why we crash and that all data and methodology be open and available to everyone.

    This is a safety inquiry, but I really don't think that we understand why people crash motorcycles. My guess is incursion on right of way in intersections and panicking of rider in curves leading to target fixation. Vicroads guess is excessive or inappropriate speed. Others believe it is because of driver distractions. They are all guesses.

    Really how can we make recommendations to improve safety when we don't know why we crash.

    Not sure which I would remove to get that one in. Maybe the last one, because whilst annoying will not increase safety. Maybe 5 would be better if TAC could understand why we crash from the study that I recommend rather than use their guesses, which is what annoys us.