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Victoria to get Point-to-Point (avg speed) camera's by EOY

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Mouth, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. "Speeding Victorian motorists will be fined using radical new point-to-point fixed speed cameras by the end of the year under the new offence of exceeding the limit by an average speed, the State Government has revealed." ......


    Fines roll in from new speed trap
    By Jason Dowling
    State Politics
    February 27, 2005

    Speeding Victorian motorists will be fined using radical new point-to-point fixed speed cameras by the end of the year under the new offence of exceeding the limit by an average speed, the State Government has revealed.

    Police have also confirmed to The Sunday Age that 27 truck drivers were caught speeding on the Hume Highway in December and January using existing point-to-point technology - known as an "electrotecter" - fixed to police cars.

    At this stage it is believed there will be four point-to-point gantries on the Hume Highway recording a motorist's average speed.

    The equipment will mean that even if a motorist is below the speed limit when they pass the camera, they could receive a fine if they were speeding between cameras.

    Legislation enabling police to fine motorists for exceeding the average speed over a set distance was passed in the Victorian Parliament in December 2003.

    The Government, which made almost $170 million from speeding fines last year, has confirmed it has signed the contract for the new point-to-point cameras and they are likely to be spread between Craigieburn and Wodonga.

    Police said they were concerned by the results of one operation, where 80 heavy trucks using the Hume Highway between 3am and 5am were recorded travelling at an average speed of between 105 and 118 km/h.

    The legal speed limit for trucks on the road is 100 km/h.

    Police Minister Tim Holding said that under the new system a motorist would receive only one average speed fine for their entire journey, regardless of whether they exited the highway in Kilmore or Wodonga.

    "What we have basically said is that you will be (fined) once for that journey," he said.

    Mr Holding has not ruled out the use of the cameras for on-the-spot fines and said that was an issue he would discuss with police. Under such a proposal, a motorist could lose their licence in one trip and face hundreds of dollars in speeding fines.

    "Speed cameras are spread around our road network . . . if you went through two or three fixed speed cameras and got pinged on every one, you would get three infringements and that's how it should be," he said.

    Concern has already been raised about the introduction of multiple speed cameras on the newly completed Geelong road upgrade, with motorists potentially losing their licence in one trip.

    With the new speed cameras on the Geelong road and Hume Highway, and the reintroduction of speed cameras on the Western Ring Road and the West Gate Freeway expected later in the year, the Government is set for a large revenue windfall.

    Cameras on the CityLink and Monash Freeway became operational again on December 1.

    More than a million speeding tickets were processed last year, boosting state revenue by $167 million.

    Last financial year the Government collected $233.5 million for all police fines, and it has forecast collecting up to $350.5 million this financial year.

    Opposition police spokesman Kim Wells said the Liberal Party supported speed cameras so long as the focus was on road safety, not revenue raising, and so long as the cameras were accurate.

    "There is a set speed limit and we expect people to travel at or below that speed limit so we would support it if the focus is on road safety," he said.

    The introduction of point-to-point cameras is part of the Government's Arrive Alive strategy to cut road deaths by 20 per cent over five years.

    The road tolls in the past two years have been the lowest on record in Victoria.

    "What we are trying to do is to send the message to people that you just can't afford to travel too fast, on short journeys, on local roads or on major highways, it doesn't matter. People speeding, particularly speeding over a sustained period of time where fatigue and other factors become an issue, are a danger to themselves and to other drivers," Mr Holding said.

    The director of Monash University's Accident Research Centre, Ian Johnston, said point-to-point cameras would reduce speeding because they would take away excuses for momentary speeding.

    "The beauty of point-to-point is if your average speed is above the speed limit, than you are clearly not exceeding it momentarily, you are setting out to exceed it - it is so obviously deliberate and sustained," Professor Johnston said.

    The RACV's general manager of public policy, Ken Ogden, said his organisation supported the introduction of point-to-point cameras.

    But he said a motorist should receive only one fine for a journey and the cameras should not be used for on-the-spot fines as well.

    Mr Ogden said the Government and police should also have a public information campaign around the time the cameras are switched on.

    "The point of these is to deter speeding, and with adequate publicity that would occur," he said.
  2. $100 says these will be set up so they cover major hills etc.

    Guess I'll just have to learn how to ride with my foot over the number plate :p
  3. What's likely to be the distance between these cameras. Is it, 200m or 5km?
  4. And does anyone understand how these cameras figure out which vehicle is which over such distances?? I can't figure out how such a system works, especially when traffic changes lanes and new vehicles enter etc.
  5. Yup thats a plan if I ever heard one..point to point cameras will result in the "Cowboys" running the back roads again ie Benella to Bonnie Doon/Yea to Lilydale..favoured rat runs of the overloaded and the sleepless.
  6. If I remember corectly pic's are taken of all vehicles as you go past/under one point then again at the next point.
    On a run to Sydney up the Hume we found these things opperating at the Goulburn end of the hwy......Safety Cam they called it.Bastards
    Have a look at the NSW RTA site to give you an idea how it all goes down. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/safety/safetcam/
  7. If the purpose of speeding fines is truly for education, how can the Minister make the following claim:

    "Mr Holding has not ruled out the use of the cameras for on-the-spot fines and said that was an issue he would discuss with police. Under such a proposal, a motorist could lose their licence in one trip and face hundreds of dollars in speeding fines.

    "Speed cameras are spread around our road network . . . if you went through two or three fixed speed cameras and got pinged on every one, you would get three infringements and that's how it should be," he said."

    Surely people should be given time to modify their behaviour and see the error of their ways, rather than remove their licence for one bad day being 3kph over the speed limit? Is he saying if you make a misjudgement of less than 3% you should lose your licence?

    This guy obviously lives breathes and shits somewhere like Docklands. He should get out more and be exposed to his own laws.

    I wonder how long these laws would stay in place if the politicians were forced to get out and drive on the roads 2 or 3 full days in a month and be personally responsible for the transgressions, not allow a roadfine-funded chauffer to take the responsibilty.

    soapbox mode = off; :x
  8. Not sure about how there going to do it here in Vic.

    But the 'safety cam" system in NSW is more to catch the long haul truckies.
    A pic is taken at one end or the other of your number plate and the time etc.
    then again at the other end , useing some high tech comp software the time taken to cover the distance can be used to work out your average speed
    etc etc etc ,
    Then if you've taken 7hrs to do a trip that should take 9 , guess what ? a letter in the mail with a please report to the nearest RTA with your log book and some vasaline for your going to be well and truely rodgered !!
  9. I wanna know how any fixed, automated camera can detect a knob driving erratically between two points.

    they can tailgate, overtake and slow down any number of times, cut in front, force their way into lanes, I imagine they could mono a bike/fishtale a car the whole distance (less the actual photo points) and not have the cameras detect it.

    Any a-hole could drive like an absolute looney, do many stoopid and dangerous stunts, then cop at most a single ticket for average speed in excess of the limit.

    Best thing about this, it will be most successful against the (minority) of cowboy truckies, worst things, too much collateral damage by forcing the cowboys onto the back roads, then having to make up the loss in expected revenue by picking on the average road user.

    What a waste of money..... glad I'm in Tas.

    Another over-engineered attempted answer to a simple problem.

    Only a human can correctly assess what's really happening, and determine the correct causes and responses. Stop wasting money on beaurocrats, pollies perks, hi-tech crap and place more humans on the scene.

    Yep, I advocate more cops and less machinery to monitor the roads, at least then when the knob causes an "accident" there'll be a trained response quickly at the scene

  10. If it is like the Newell Hwy in NSW, the distance between cameras can be 20 km plus. Don't know that there is a set distance, but all they need is the average time for a set speed across the distance between sets of cameras. In NSW, I believe the point to point cameras are only used for heavy vehicles, at least that was how it was a few years ago.
  11. These point to point cameras, if set up on gantries, will move the police off the Hume to the secondary "backroad" routes increasing everyones chance of getting caught on what were once relatively quiet roads.
  12. In theory, I agree, but in practise I bet it doesn't happen, because in my mind you cannot replace a trained/experienced human with a camera.
    A cop can monitor speed, erratic driving, hooning, road rage etc, can also respond to an event that didn't happen to happen where he/she was waiting. Cops are mobile, not bolted to one spot. Cops can assist with first aid, conflict reolution etc, they can also do more than just one thing, and potentially do all those thingsbetter than a dedicated electro-mechanical device.

    If these cameras are constantly monitored by a human, it would be better, but I bet they will not be. So at best they will be a "post event" system that sends a fine in the mail, well after the dangerous situation has occurred, that's no help to anyone except treasury.

    A learner could average 99 kph between the camera's and not get picked up until the images are post processed, an automatic system will need to able to recognise an L or P, and adjust the "trigger" period between the cameras to suit. Do they?

    If you have more cops, not the same number re-arranged, then that L/P plater will be sprung. What has more potentail danger, an inexperienced rider/driver doing 19 kph over or an experienced driver/rider doing 5 kph over?
    (Both are wrong, one deserves a warning, the other needs a copper delivering a strong kick up the bum to the learner, and a ticket to the "instructor" if it happened in a car)

    How will a camera detect a drunk/drugged driver doing less than the limit?
    Speeding is wrong, but it's only one, usually contributory, part of the accident/death rates on the road, dedicated speed camera devices will not solve the wider issues of road accidents.

    Who will prove the accuracy and maintenance of this device? Remember the debacle in Victoria(?) when the radars/cameras were proven inaccurate.

    Sorry, I'm and ex mechanic and current IT sysadmin, and one thing I've learnt is that this technology is fallible, so why replace a sometimes fallible human with a fallible gadget??

  13. kewl and before you know it they will be used in confuction with fatigue laws, drive 6 hours rest 4 :)
  14. There is only one this to ladies and gentlemen, go to the local shops and get yorself a roll of duct tape...
  15. Even cheaper than the one that available here in Melbourne.
  16. Hehe,i love the net! :D The only problem is if you get caught with it Vic,supposedly its 2 years off your licence and a $5000 fine. That sounds insanely excessive to me,but thats what ive been told,could anyone clarify this? :eek: :eek: :eek:
  17. MMMM.....although it is getting the point in this fascist nation that I'm considering that sort of thing...I'm not a dork about speed - but with my luck the minute I open the throttle a camera is there...

    And for the Govt of Victoria - I deliberately avoid going to Vic for fear of a brain fade....So work out the economics of that....

  18. For you to have an average speed of over 100 km/h (or whatever the posted limit is), at some point you will have to be exceeding the limit by a fair bit.

    For example, I have a cycle computer on the bike. It measures average speed at any given point of a trip.

    I have measured the average speed between Omeo and Bruthern. It was 75 km/h. On a Tintaldra weekend recently, between Beechworth and Tintaldra, it was 101 km/h. At one point, max speed was 202 km/h.

    Between Tintaldra and Merimbula it was 98 km/h. Between Cooma and Brown Mountain, a couple of us were doing around 150 km/h or more.

    What would be a good one to pull (and if you have the balls to do it..), is to get a lend of a car or bike that's identical to yours, affix one of your plates or a facsimile thereof, to it. Have the first one go past the first camera. Then, say, 5 mins. later, have the second one go past the second camera. Record say, an average speed of 400 km/h. Then challenge the system in court.
  19. Thats brilliant!Wanna try it with me? :D :LOL: 8)