Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Victoria, further down the drain?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by gsxxer, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. Thoughts on this?


    Its unacceptable in a diverse society for ideologies to be allowed in schools pushing illogic and irrationality. The author of the report Michael Flood is an unabashed feminist, an ideology with a propensity to distort or fabricate information, rely on Machiavellian tactics, and rely on emotional arguing. This is no different to letting creationism into the science classroom.

    This has larger implications than a few people believing the earth is 6000 years old though. The kind of misinformation we put up with already is bad enough, take any DV ad and you find the same 1 dimensional interpretation, of some large athletic man attacking some small attractive woman.

    It crosses a line though when you are using an ideology to teach boys that violence is a product of their gender, all the while ignoring that they will inevitably be teaching this to boys that have been assaulted themselves, often by women, including sexually assaulted. Its bad enough already for boys to speak up about these things.

    You dont hear much about these issues at the best of times in australia, so I figured Id see what the netrider crew has to say. Especially considering the feeling towards victoria here :LOL:

    Lets hope this doesnt spread.
  2. weeelllllllll, there is a much stronger correlation between testosterone and violence than there is between estrogen and violence. One might even say causation...

    Anyway, while boys have testicles, feminist propaganda will largely be ignored.

    I bet feminism stemmed from the fact that women are just jealous that men can stand at the toilet while they have to sit.
  3. No, propensity for violence is an incredibly complicated set of factors, the idea of testosterone being a cause for violence is a pop culture myth. Its highest in men around their 40's...are they the most violent? Not to mention it fails to explain why women are as prone violence as men in relationships, not to mention violence in lesbian relationships.

    By the way here is the report

  4. It's about time people became Humanists, rather than side with one gender, theology, age, or any other specific belief system.
  5. Yup, can't argue with that.
  6. Does the report recommend teaching boys that violence is a product of their gender?
  7. Oh yes.

    Just looked through it. Read page 37 in particular. It makes references to standard feminist neo marxist theory, you know, that men being violent is a tool of male privilege and power over women.

    References are littered throughout the report.
  8. I think you're being unreasonable. The report deals with a real and important issue. I think it's unreasonable to describe feminism as irrational and illogical unless it is only illogical because you don't like it. It's a political philosophy which deals with power relationships, and on the issue of domestic violence, power relationships are at the core. If there wasn't a problem there we wouldn't have the high levels of offense that we DO have. Traditional male value systems have been terrible at dealing with this.

    HOW it is best dealt with is certainly open to debate, and I'm not a supporter of all feminist thinking, but this is one subject where they may have more to offer than what has gone before.

    FWIW I don't think it will work (for some of the reasons mentioned), but I don't see it as being dangerous.

    You asked.
  9. 2 of my clients here are centres that deal with domestic violence. On their walls are the the contact details for all the other centres. One of the dismaying things is that in a city of 150,000 people, there are so many places needed for women who are being abused.

    I've known people who've been abused by women and it isn't pretty. DV is really awful, whatever the gender. Normally, the person being abused is often hopelessly emotionally dependant on the abuser, has undergone years of this and has very low self esteem. It doesn't then require the abuser to be physically powerful when the victim is so dependant.
  10. I dont see it as being dangerous whatsoever. Peer attitudes will always be much stronger than anything a teacher try and tell you.
  11. I think it's unreasonable to describe feminism as irrational and illogical unless it is only illogical because you don't like it.

    I perhaps should have specified post 1960's feminism, which is effectively all radical based feminism anyways. Calling it irrational and illogical is probably the nicest way of putting it, the behaviour of its proponents has convinced me beyond a doubt. Not to mention their approach to everything being based in marxist theory, which is what this report is utilising.

    It's a political philosophy which deals with power relationships, and on the issue of domestic violence, power relationships are at the core.

    But remember in radical feminist theory, its specifically and exclusively about men exerting power over women, ignoring women over men, women over women, or men over men. Its gross willful naivety in the name of an agenda.

    Traditional male value systems have been terrible at dealing with this.

    Yes I agree. The problem with men in political positions is that they are too easily swayed by basic human impulses ie, the desire to serve women and children specifically. Count in the report how many times you read violence against women, its highly emotional writing and is effective. Nobody wants violence against women, and effectively people can be lead around on a chain.

    Even as far back as the 70's an activist named erin pizzey, who opened one of the first womens refuges, found through her research that most partner violence is reciprocal, and both genders initiate violence as often. That result has been replicated in 100's of studies, harvard, yale, oxford, cambridge you name it. I have references lying around. Unfortunately it hasnt sunken into the political ears too much. Seems like a combination of political power, and people worried about losing their jobs if they speak something unpopular.

    So a 1 dimensional approach to partner violence will never work. Expecting 1 partner to not be violent when they are most likely going to be continually attacked? Only the most hypo-reactive individuals could withstand that, both women and men. That obviously will not, and has not worked.

    What worries me most, is when ideologues go after children and teenagers. They are not emotionally developed enough to think rationally in the face of appeals to deep seated human emotions.

    Anyways, glad you asked. The point of this thread is to reach out to parents more than anything. I dont have a son, but to those that do, consider what is being put into their heads, and where they will turn when they are victims of crimes that supposedly only they are capable of committing.

    At this point I feel this report offers nothing productive, as it is a single minded approach, and not by coincidence given its ideological basis. More on that later.
  12. I learnt proper respect for women at home, a looooong time before I went to school.
  13. Lenna and myself discussed this topic at home about 2 nights ago, and i agree with bonk, this sort of thing should be taught at home.....to single out every male and put them through this is crazy, talk about paint a whole group with one brush](*,)
  14. But not everyone is like you Stewy. Families come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and the people who treat their partners like shit have kids themselves. Therefore the process continues.

    I'd prefer the class to be about respect for the person rather than respect for a gender. Woman, have, do and will continue to (though generally in lesser quantities) be the abuser, as well as a victim.
  15. It's just one of the countless proposals brought forward each year, it will be scrutinised then summarily dismissed. This one made the headlines as it is "sensational".
  16. Where I'm prepared to agree with you gsxxer, is at the point where feminism turns from a political philosophy into an ideology - in other words where people stop thinking rationally for themselves and simply adopt mantras and slogans. That's true of any system where the belief becomes more important than the truth behind it (ie. Marxism).

    I think you've got a point. The root motivation of the report may well be to entrench their belief system rather than simply trying to deal with the mechanics of the problem. Presenting this program in isolation could be potentially damaging.

    But the inconvenient truth may also be that within the extremes of feminism dogma, they may also have identified something close to the heart of the domestic violence issue. Men and boys are still taught to assert their power, and while many will NOT use violence, it's still this imperative to assert control that is the motivator.

    I am as concerned as anyone about the education system being used to silence debate by promoting ideologies, but nevertheless they deserve to be heard as much as anyone else. As long as all alternatives are properly presented then I don't have a problem with this program getting a run.

    You can't - and you shouldn't try to - protect kids from ideas.
  17. I dont have any hard numbers on motivators in domestic violence (far too much speculation is thrown around ie its always about power, women only aggressive in self defence), but much of it is about mindless animal violence, like animals in a cage. Im sure most people know males and females that will fly off the hook irrationally, and its a stretch of reality to say in those cases that its a conscious act of domination.

    Id like to see the education system let me into the classroom :LOL:
  18. +1 Smee.
    The values taught at home make an impression long before you set foot in a classroom for the first time. Whilst I hold non-violent and non-abusive values, I look on feminists with disdain, much like I do many politically extreme activists.
  19. +1 to the anti feminism rant.


    Rest of the post too personal so edited out. Nothing to see people, move along.
  20. I think you should repost it N4R.