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VIC Vicroads Motorcycle ABS Video

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by the_blacke, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. At least we can safely say that Vicroads aren't using the same creative agency that TAC uses. Or script writers, for that matter...
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  2. I really like that video. Even if you don't agree with the findings, things I liked were:

    they said it MAY help
    they said it may help in some scenarios (not all)
    they explicitly stated it was NOT the riders fault they were smidsy'd

    I'd love to see more like this.
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  3. Hopefully whoever makes the TAC ads is taking notice. This treats us as adults.
  4. I agree that they went to great pains to point out in every scenario that it is not the motorbikes fault.

    Ap point I thought was worth discussing was that they show the stopping distance of ABS as being shorter than non-ABS, I always thought that of 2 similar vehicles braking (without skidding) that the ABS bike would need a longer distance to stop?

    Go ABS bikes! I don't care what anyone says, I love my ABS although I have only every activated ABS twice since I got the bike in May 12.
  5. I'm not sure about that claim that the bike with ABS will stop 3m shorter than without ABS. They were careful to say it was 'a scenario', but I've seen enough studies that show it depends on the skill of the rider not to believe it when people state that ABS will reduce stopping distance. (Cue Robsalvv for stats here...)

    I'm also dubious about the whole swerving-while-braking bit of Scenario 2. I remember reading that motorcycle ABS is actually pretty bad at braking while leaning.

    Those quibbles aside, I see a lot to like in the video itself. They chose two all-too-common scenarios where the rider is not at fault, but still needs to brake hard to avoid a crash. I also thought the animation of the wheel lockup was good, in that it showed a skid from a rear wheel lockup and then a washout from a front wheel lockup.

    It is just a shame that TAC doesn't treat riders with the same kind of respect when they engage with us.
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  6. They did say "for the avarage rider" it will be 3 meters shorter distance.

    A rider that can hold a tyre right on the edge of traction will not have the extra advantage with ABS.
  7. Sounds a little like this guy:

    Maybe they've been paying attention to NSW MCC Rider Risk vids.

    Personally I find the education agenda questionable ... placing technology a priority before skills.

    Does look like they've been paying attention to the backlash resulting from TAC approach, kudos to VMC etc. Change is afoot.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Best clip from any Victoria Government agency to date. It may not be perfect and the experts may pick a few incidentals, but it goes a long way to state that the incidents shown and not riders faults but have to deal with them accordingly.
  9. yeah. I think that's where some of the advantage comes. Many riders don't brake to full capacity because they are trying not to lock up the tyre. As a result, they may end up braking to (eg) 90% of the bikes capabilities. Then in the wet, they are even more conservative. Not everyone. I'm sure some riders are capable of braking 99-100%. I can't see how ABS would out brake them in that case. There wouldn't be too many who can do that however. (IMO).

    Anyway, as I said earlier, regardless of if you agree with the ABS content entirely (there are many threads already talking about this), the style of the video was excellent!

    I'm not sure that it was doing that. The video was about ABS, explaining the advantage of it. I don't see an issue of focusing on that tech when that's what it was about. If it was about training, then training would've been the focus. Now, SHOULD there be videos about training too? Of course!! I hope to see them.

    If they genuinely believe that a tech will help riders, I'd certainly prefer to see them tell us in this manner than how it's been done previously.
  10. When I went through the police driver training, we were trained and provided with many different examples which showed that a properly trained driver can outbrake ABS, quite easily too.

    I know that isn't too relevant to this scenario though, as was said earlier; not all of us can take a motorcycle tyre to its extreme safety limit and keep it there without stacking it.

    In saying that though, I am all pro-ABS on motorcycles. I'm damn certain myself that ABS would out brake me anyday.
  11. They’d have a set marketing budget for promoting motorcycle safety.

    This (ABS) falls under “education” as it attempts to educate riders on the benefits of ABS.

    Their priorities are reflected by their choices ... choice made to kick off with ABS (technology) first.

    Likelihood of it being promoted to be watched at learner/licensing courses I'd think is high – just as emphasis was placed on protective gear at such courses a couple of years back.

    Yet, in the absence of good, solid braking skills ABS is going to help ... ? eg. rider looks down, rider goes down.
    Those who’ve already been riding a while will be aware of and familiar with ABS so it's something of a wasted spend for that market segment.

    So, back to choices made in terms of prioritising spend on “education/infomercials” for mc’s in the VicRoads marketing budget, first kick off with technology, can we next expect to see something on hi viz?

    Just as an aside, to me promotion of technology (which results in sales) is prime role of manufacturers, distributors etc.
    When state gvt (Vicroads etc) starts promoting such things it takes it a step closer to “mandating” territory.
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  12. Yes the video was better produced than most from a government agency.

    I'm a fan of skill rather than technology, I like the idea of man over machine, rather than computer over machine.

    It is a much more beautiful thing to see someone skillfully overcome the limits of the machine and work with what they have. Not so much the hang on and let the technology take over, and that includes traction control etc.

    Safety is safety, but I just hope it doesn't take over to the point where we lose the feel.
  13. just out of curiosity, what would your "script" be for a training video about training? How would you approach it? I think that as a subject would be very difficult to do. There are so many variables. You can't do it as an "x gives you y" scenario.
  14. The clip isn't a bad effort, but it doesn't explain any of the cons, only the pros, and it promotes technology over skill and like all ABS discussions, focusses on fear.

    The premier's press release quotes the most popular but highly flawed ABS study as support for ABS, so I once again despair. ABS will be seen as a panacea that it is not and when the advertised fatality reduction fails to appear, then what?

    If you ride totally within the operating envelope of the ABS, it should never trip you up or exacerbate the scenario you're in, just learn how to brake properly FFS, because ABS really needs you to inorder to get the most out of it.

    Comments like Voz's are pretty typical of ABS devotees, they love it but don't really know why... it's a faith thing... but lets not go there again.
  15. Heheh ... put me in charge of their marketing budget and I’ll show you. :wink:

    Starting with
    - Clearly defined target audience
    - Clearly define purpose etc

    No, not difficult (ime). In skills development (training) there’s a clear logical progression and the primary target audience is readily identified.
    The better training vids impart information in easily digestible bite size pieces (more often than not involving a series of clips/segments, instead of 1 vid covers all type approach).
    On the spectrum of ease to difficult, I’d place scriptwriting for training vids at the easier end of the spectrum, whereas those more heavily reliant on creative concepts, eg. advertising, film are at the more difficult end.
  16. oh, so you're talking about specific training then. As in, in this case, do this... yes, that would be easy. I was thinking of it in terms of "you should also do more training for the following reasons"... more of teaching a concept of training instead of specifics. Yours is much better. carry on.
  17. I had the chance to experience what it feels like to have ABS on Tuesday this week. I hit the skids in the dry to pull up at a set of lights that were turning yellow.

    I felt the rear brake lever "click" - and realised that my ABS was operating. The bike pulled up smoothly and quickly.

    H-D started fitting ABS as standard about 3 years ago. It hasn't added to the price of purchasing a new one - in fact the new one I purchased in April this year was $2,000 cheaper that the one I purchased in 2008 (maybe the exchange rate has improved - but even allowing for inflation H-D haven't chosen to use it to make the bike more expensive).

    Is this video accurate? In my experience yes it is. I like it. Well done VicRoads :applause:

    Am I an ABS convert? Yes I am. But, I agree it should not be mandated.

    Would I recommend it as part of one's reason for purchasing one model fitted with ABS over one fitted without ABS? Yes I would.
  18. Ah, I'm with you (I think).
    Depends if the intention is to "teach" (specific; eg. 'train') or to "promote" (more generic; eg. 'encourage') a concept of training.
    Different target, objective/purpose.
    Knowing this first helps determine and shape content (style, tone, level, delivery).
  19. i really like this. i watched the whole thing!

    i generally ignore anything with TAC these days.
  20. Wouldn't the main advantage of ABS be that you cannot lock up the wheels in panic?

    It is one thing perfecting e-braking with no pressure whatsoever, it is another thing having the same control during a real pucker moment.