Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

[VIC] Victoria Police Face Crisis

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Justus, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. How long till you pull the pin Hubie? :p

    Herald Sun poll: Victorian police face crisis

    Keith Moor
    April 09, 2008 12:00am

    SPECIAL REPORT: VICTORIA Police faces a crisis of confidence as a
    landmark Herald Sun survey shows two in three officers have considered
    quitting in the past year and only one in three give Chief Commissioner
    Christine Nixon a pass mark.

    Ms Nixon's approval rating among her own police officers is just 31 per cent.

    The rest describe her performance as below average or bad.

    The shock findings are based on the responses of 3459 officers statewide to
    a special Herald Sun online poll of more than 11,000 serving Victorian police.

    Many officers used the poll to voice their anger over the state of the force.
    One wrote: "If the public honestly knew how under-resourced we are -- and how
    severe the crime rate really is -- they would be horrified."

    The poll results will be published in three instalments, beginning with today's
    findings that:

    97% per cent of respondents believe there are not enough operational police
    to properly patrol Victoria's streets, public transport and roads.

    64% per cent said they had considered resigning in the past 12 months, citing
    lack of resources, stress, and low force morale. Only 10 per cent of these cited
    pay as a cause of concern.

    Many argued that Ms Nixon was trying to over-feminise the force by favouring
    female recruits.

    Others alleged her softly softly approach had resulted in a lack of respect for
    police and that officers had lost control of the streets.

    There were widespread claims by police that the force hierarchy manipulates
    statistics to hide the low number of officers available for frontline duties.

    Many police also said the way crime statistics are recorded means Victorians
    don't get a true picture of the high level of crime in the state.

    "We need more members on the beat and not sitting in offices fiddling statistics,"
    one officer said.

    Another said Victoria Police owed it to the public to own up to the real figures.

    Article in Full

    United front: police vote to express disapproval of Chief Commissioner
    Christine Nixon during a rally at Rod Laver Arena yesterday.

  2. Too many females in force, according to police survey

    Too many females in force, according to
    police survey

    Keith Moor
    April 09, 2008 12:00am

    MANY police who responded to a Herald Sun survey nominated
    the feminising of the force as one of the three biggest problems
    facing Victoria Police.

    "Get more males into the academy, not more females," one officer said.

    More women than men graduated from the police academy in 2007,
    the first time the boys in blue had ever been outnumbered by female

    The percentage of women in the force has jumped from 15 per cent
    to almost 23 per cent in the seven years since Christine Nixon became
    Victoria's first female chief.

    But that's still below the national average of 31 per cent. Victoria Police
    has said it intends continuing to encourage female recruits so it can
    reach that figure.

    But frontline police are not happy with the strategy.

    "There are too many females who put male members at risk out on the
    one said.

    "I have been injured three times in the past 12 months fighting drunken
    idiots and getting no backup from my female partner, who is too small or
    too scared to help."

    Another said there were too many promotions of women based on gender
    rather than ability.

    "We have this emphasis on promoting females through non-operational
    positions and putting them in operational supervisory positions with
    minimal operational experience,"
    the officer said.

    Many police also regretted there was no longer a minimum height require-
    ment for recruits and that the force had scrapped some aspects of the
    physical training to make it easier for women to pass.

    "They have dropped relevant components to allow below-standard persons in,"
    one officer said.

    "I'm tired of carrying the workload of incompetent people. Also, bring back the
    physical component. Even as a female, I'm embarrassed."

    A force spokeswoman defended recruiting of women and their performance.

    She said only one other state had a lower percentage of female officers,
    and an Auditor-General's report in 2006 recommended that attracting
    and retaining women should be a priority.

    She said of 20 police service areas with 25 per cent or higher female
    representation, 14 were in the top-performing half of all police service

    On average, 77 women (0.6 per cent of the force) were on maternity leave
    each financial year. Men averaged more carer and personal leave.

  3. Well, if they stopped resourcing 20 officers at a time just to catch a dozen or so bike riders safely traversing short straights on back roads in the middle of nowhere, and put them on the streets where they'll actually do something productive to counter real crime that has real victims - then there might be less problems. The number of people that crash in a straight line is miniscule, but almost all of the traffic policing efforts are spent on that aspect. I was more than a little annoyed at being pulled over, with lights blazing and sirens blaring, a while back by an unmarked car just to give me a breatho and rego check at 9am in the morning. I asked the officer if I had done anything wrong for him to pull me over. "No", was the answer. Just seem to like chasing down riders giving the impression to all around that they're wanton criminals when really they're abiding by the law.

    On Friday/Saturday nights it's like a freaking zoo where I live. On Friday night in our area, a gang of youths threw a rock through the windscreen of a car passing on the highway. Smashed the driver's windscreen but fortunately didn't hurt the driver. Unfortunately, or perhaps karmically for the youths, said driver just happened to have a trained attack German Shephard in his car, stopped the car and set the dog loose onto the offenders. The police were called by multiple house occupants in the area. No police turned up (that I heard). Car driver drove off after about 10 minutes, leaving a few of the youths bitten and bloodied.

    What I don't understand is this. The police force has had its numbers bolstered by around 50% or so according to the Bracks/Brumby governments. If today the police officers feel more under-resourced than they did ten years ago and it certainly appears that way, then wouldn't the issue therefore be more one of inefficient and inappropriate deployment than a lack of numbers?
  4. not so much inefficient and inappropriate deployment, when it boils down to it, its about the $$... whether the police are under funded, or they are not generating enough income will affect where the cops are distributed...

    basically, breaking up fights, blotting out crime and monitoring the streets for public safety doesn't generate income, it costs (a lot)... however, a cop in a patrol car, watching a freeway for someone doing 110 in a 100 zone does generate income, and significant amounts at that if you get them out on enough roads....

    i don't want to get into a revenue razing debate vs a road safety debate, as its not what my comment is about...

    im just suggesting that maybe the police along with the government need to adjust the pressures on the force so they can distribute officers in such a way that is actually beneficial to society more so than a departments budget....

    about 3 years ago, i watched a patrol car in the town im from, roll by the front of a night club (at traffic lights) a guy came stumbling out with blood coming out of his back, and another guy chasing him with a broken bottle.... at the same time, some stupid p-plater pulled a stunt just beyond the intersection.... the two cops in the car would have easily seen both incidents... however they chose to peruse the p-plater... who yes, may be doing the wrong thing, but on the other hand there was a person being physically assaulted on the street....

    shows where their priorities are very clearly...

  5. and afetr the thread about bodgying stats on RBTs etc , do you honestly believe that other stats are not .
  6. You'd think that if police were underresourced, one of the first areas they'd cut down in is traffic management yeah? Hmmmm, murder/**** vs speeding..... :evil:
  7. Re: Too many females in force, according to police survey

    Just checking on news.com MG, and suprisingly a lot of people are agreeing with this. I dont have a problem with the numbers or percentages, but when it comes to going on the beat, small female officers shouldn't be there. Placement has to be appropriate. I can see though that this has been driven by public servants making the numbers look good.
  8. Re: Too many females in force, according to police survey

    It depends on what sort of police force you want, doesn't it? There are more ways to resolve a dispute, settle and argument and disperse a crowd than physical violence. Neanderthals like Mullet are stuck in an era where female coppers made the tea and little else. Mullet hates Nixon as she's a woman and she's taken him on. What he wanted (as intimated in last years OPI stuff) was a nice compliant police chief he could manipulate as he saw fit.

    I have a female friend who wants to join the force. She'd be an awesome candidate and an excellent officer. Her skills extend far beyond the physical brutalising that people like Mullet like to remember as the way they did policing. That man, his whole demeanour, scares me. It's not as if VicPol have exactly covered themselves in glory these last few years. If they were squeaky clean and beyond reproach, they'd have a better case to present.
  9. Follows up what I said about Nixon in another thread.
    That Hippopotamus has got to go!
  10. Re: Too many females in force, according to police survey

    Ok I'm only going to respond to part of this.

    There is only one way to respond to a gang brawl/pub fight/riot.
    Water cannon and or batons!
    Anyone who says otherwise (with respect) has never been there.
    Touchy feely does not work when you are faced with a p1ssed agro 6ft 2in Islander with an attitude!

    Now, if you get there before it goes South, a woman can settle things down and do it well.
    I've seen female civvie / military coppers do it.
    But she needs the boys there to take over!
    As much as I agree that women make good community police, sexual assult members, detectives etc, they cannot (as a rule) "mix it" with the boys. I want a 6ft male bodybuilder at my back when it goes south!
    (Having said that, a lot of the males Christine is employing can't either.)

    The problem is not women in the job. It's in the lack of big brawny guys (who can respond to the above), meaning small(er) women are forced to.

    I agree Mullet is a Stegasourous, but he is popular and in a lot of ways right!
    I'll also wager he is still "in the job" in a year. Christine may not be.....
  11. This story made me smile.
  12. Tramp, for sure, for those occasions when things go pear shaped, you need to be able to back that stuff up with physical presence. But you and me would definitely meet the criteria that some people lay down, 5'8" and above etc...but we'd be overrun with ease by a 6'2" drugged up yob. So would most people I know.

    The point that muppets like Mullet don't get is that policing is SO much more than riots and physical assault. People like him lost the respect for the force by dubious policing methods, corruption and lying. I get the feeling they'd prefer the days when you could beat a suspect up and get away with it.

    Listened to an interview with her this morning. This 'feminisation' of the force still leaves Victoria with the lowest female participation rate in Australia.

    Christine not in a job? Given that her contract expires within the year, it's a reasonable bet she might move on. However, Mullet and his fellow muppets have reportedly demanded the government sack her. For what? For implementing the law? For asking that the police are of the highest ethical standards?

    For Mullet even to have any voice is amazing. Here is a guy where there is a strong circumstantial case linking him to some very dodgy dealings. He risks being prosecuted for some serious crimes, yet he still heads the PA? And *he* demands *she* be sacked?

    I'd rather someone as progressive and thinking as Nixon compared to the pre-historic rubbish that Mullet would prefer us to have.
  13. Mmmmm, not if you know how to deal with the aforesaid yobbo. And definitely not if I am working with another (trained) male as backup.
    A strong, big, fit woman may be able to help. The average one could not.

    Ok, he has not been proven guilty, and i suspect that he won't be on a lot of issues. The "evidence" is a best dodgy.

    Irrelevant. We actually need more members full stop.

    She is so unpopular with the rank and file (who I deal with a lot) that it's not funny. There is zero respect for her. I agree that demanding she be sacked is a bit OTT.

    See what I said above. He is innocent till proven guilty. He is also the authorised union rep, speaking for all members.

    I repeat, I agree he is a dinosaur.
  14. I see what you're seeing Cejay and in a perfect world that would be the police force we'd have. But both you and I know that all you have to do is going into town on a saturday night, you will always see a brawl. There are always going to be situations were things get physical and send as many 6ft unit chicks as you like, just leave the 5 foot ones to do other police work like detectives, etc.
  15. Exactly.

    The guy is embroiled in a political stoush with the government and force command.

    Irrelevant. We actually need more members full stop.[/quote]

    And ones that can stand up to drunks, thugs, and others who would seek to "Bladrunnerise" our streets.

    My wife got pulled over on her way to Safeway one evening. She was doing some Xmas baking. Just as she indicated to pull into the carpark cops following flashed the lights, etc. and pulled her over. One of them was a female.

    She asked what the problem was. Just routine licence check, etc.. Anyway, Safeway was close to closing and she wanted to zip in and get her stuff. She asked them. They said to stay in the car. Meanwhile, she's fuming. What made matters worse was the sound of howling engines and screeching car tyres two blocks over, or about 30 seconds travel time away. She said, what are you going to do about the hoons to these "police". THey said for her to mind her business. They spent ten minutes "looking up" her details. No fines were issued, no warnings, no apologies no nothing. She did manage to get into Safeway before it closed.

    These useless pricks found it more entertaining, I s'pose, to run a random licence check on a car that was clearly driven by a mature aged woman who was driving safely and properly in a car that was hardly likely to be unreg etc. (2006 Mazda Tribute, a few months old at the time). Whereas if these people were prowling around the known trouble spots then they could've actually done something productive for the night.

    Sorry, but when they decided to dumb down the police force by making it easy for anyone to join, they also dumbed down any respect that people may have had for the organisation.

    So too have some of her predecessors. The problem with those who rise to the top job all too often they're types who spend most of their careers in non operational duties, who have the time to go out and get some mickey mouse arts degree, then have the nerve to tell operational police how to do their jobs. The way that the promotional policies go it's difficult for a rank and file member to progress beyond Snr Sargent if he doesn't have post-secondary qualifications and it seems, these days, if the member also has a member.
  16. I totally agree. But there are still way more men than women in the force. And there's a hell of a lot more to policing than drunks on a Saturday night.

    My reaction is not to Nixon but to Mullet. He comes across as a good old fashioned bully. He might be the PA elected representative, but I can't help but think they'd get further without him than with him.
  17. I'm sorry guys but I disagree with you about having small female officers on the street being a potential problem, and I'm sure Tarmacsamurai would too.

    Size/gender should not be an issue in a physical confrontation, with a few exceptions of course. If the female Police officers are unable to defend themselves or more specifically subdue an offender, then they are being inadequately trained in unarmed combat/self-defence. I've spent a fair amount of my adult life learning various martial arts - most specifically defensive arts that teach you to use your opponents inertia against them. Even the biggest, most violent person will come unstuck if they are forced into losing their balance :wink:

    I'd be curious to hear from Hubie about what the coppers are actually taught in basic training and if it is ongoing or whether it's 'this is XYZ technique - now on your way' :shock:

  18. And you've clearly never done any real combat training or full contact fighting. And no Systema doesn't count. More to the point you've clearly never rolled competitively against someone with 20+kg's on you.

    Women are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to physical combat. On a level playing field they simply do not have a chance.
    Hell even a large weight difference between two males of similar skill level makes for a huge advantage. Once a male attacker has hold of a female, she's in a world of shit. It's near impossible to escape from bottom if the person on top is much bigger and is pounding the crap out of you.
  19. What? You mean that Bruce Lee movies aren't like the real world? :rofl:
  20. Bruce Lee sucked, he didn't have any ground game :D

    Seriously though, in a restricted situation like a bjj roll, I've had my arse handed to me by a female black belt. Given the same situation with no rules, I or any male with a reasonable ground defence and fair boxing skills would pound ten colours of crap out of her.