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[Vic] Us verses Them - share your story

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Chef, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. I have the opportunity to speak to many riders from all different circles and share stories with them, unfortunately I don't get to speak to everyone. So the purpose of this thread is to share some stories with you and hopefully if you have any you will share yours with us.

    The theme of the thread is the apparent double standards that are being applied to us because we ride motorcycles.
    Please keep your stories and discussions on topic.
  2. This one is about a rider who told me of a time he filtered forward to the advanced stop line at an intersection and rolled over it by three inches. He was pulled over by a solo on the side of the road who was watching and given a fine and two demerit points.

    Yet you can go to any intersection in Melbourne at any time of the day and watch as car after car does the same thing, sometimes advancing far enough forward to actually cross the line completely. Keep an eye out for it as you're filtering and pay attention to where cars are stopping and where you're stopping. Keeping in mind if a cop sees you you're the one who will most likely get pinged for it.
  3. Not so long ago I was talking to a ride leader who led a crew through Gippsland for a day out in the hills. Now we both realise that Gippsland and the Latrobe Valley is an area that is receiving a lot of attention but i didn't realise just how much.

    On just the one day his crew was pulled over for license and rego checks 8 times. How's that for a statistic?

    They weren't breaking any laws at the time, they were simply riding along in a group and minding there own business. No infringements were given to them. Some of the stops were made under the umbrella of the black flag/yellow flag program, so not only were they accosted they were also given a lecture about the evils of riding.

    In relation to traffic, cops have unique powers afforded to them that they don't readily enjoy in other facets of their job. They have the power to stop you and demand to see your identity and driving credentials any time they like without the hindrance of reason or due cause getting in the way.

    They claim the purpose of checking licenses and rego is justified by them because they also claim that many riders are unlicensed or on unregistered bikes. Sounds fair and reasonable.

    But I ask you, how many riders would even attempt to ride through Gippsland without having the proper credentials? Hundreds? Thousands? Ten? One? How many???

    More to the point I ask Vicpol, how many riders are they catching to be able continue to use their justification? Can finding one rider amongst hundreds justify pulling over and accosting law abiding riders 8 times in the one day? Just how many times do need to pull someone over before you're satisfied they are actually registered to ride on the road, and they are actually licensed to ride on the road?

  4. I said it before Chef -- its nothing but a control/power trip thing
  5. This occasion is about a young lady who was riding a suburban street. She rode up a hill where the speed limit is set at 70k/ph. Before cresting the hill the speed limit changes to 80k/ph. As she crested the hill and was past the signs she was doing 85k/ph, she knows this because that's what the radar got her at.

    At the same time all of this was happening a car came past her clearly going faster than 85k/ph. The inevitable happened and the cop using the radar pulled out and gave pursuit. When the copper pulled her over she politely asked why the car who was clearing well above the speed limit wasn't pulled over, the reply she received was "we're targeting bikes today." She was given a ticket for doing 85k/ph in a 70k/ph zone.

    After she calmed down and cooled off it occurred to her that she was improperly issued with a ticket. From where the copper was positioned he couldn't see the 70k/ph zone much less take a reading from there. So she called up the issuing officer and brought it to his attention, he told her he would get back to her.

    Two days later he called back, I assume he went back to the site where he was set up and issued the ticket, be he realised she was spot on about his inaccuracy.

    He then told her he would cancel the ticket and i quote, "I will also let you off the 5k's over you were doing in the 80 zone."

    Shame he didn't pull over the car after all, he might have been able to get something to stick.

  6. You're absolutely right, but i gave it a tweak just the same ;)

    Last one for now. A rider was a part of an open invite group ride, one where you can just turn up and you don't need to know anybody to join in. The ride went through a well known hotspot for riders and police activity and the rest of the group took off and gave it a bit of welly.

    This particular rider decided he didn't want to go at the pace of the rest of the group and so he tailed off. He maintains he was doing 70k/ph in a 50k/ph zone. He also said the rest of the group was probably doing around 90k/ph, so there's a significant difference of the speeds between him and the group. In his words, "I saw them peeling off and decided to let them go."

    Unfortunately they had been spotted by a cop driving past the road they had turned down, and he turned around and gave pursuit. This was at night and the rider in question told me it went down like this. He first saw the headlights of a car behind him in the distance and watched as it closed up on him rapidly. The car tore up behind him and got to within a couple of metres of his rear tyre and put it's lights and sirens on, he pulled over immediately.

    He tells me it never occurred to him at the time it might have been a copper because he felt the car was behaving too recklessly for it to be the police, and from the time he first saw it to the moment the lights went on he assumed it was a street racer and he was in danger.

    So he was pretty shook up when the copper got out of the car and started firing questions and accusations at him. The copper accused him of doing 90k/ph in a 50k/ph zone and he demanded to know the names of the other riders who were up ahead.

    The rider responded by admitting he was at fault and he admitted to doing 70k/ph which is what he had been sitting on when he looked down as the car approached.

    When he didn't provide the copper with the names and information he was after, the pig informed him that he was going to ping him at 90k/ph, because that's what the other riders were doing.

    The rider told him that's impossible because that would put the group ahead at well above 90k/ph and that can't be done through that section of road. I know the road he's talking and that sounds pretty much spot on.

    The copper told him he wasn't interested and he was going to get the infringement and loss of license regardless. I asked the rider if the cop had followed him for any length of time to ascertain his speed, and he told me no, he flew up behind him and immediately pulled him over.

    The rider wants to have the matter dealt with in court to protest his innocence of the charge of speeding at 40k's over the limit. I don't like his chances.

  7. cars can't filter ....
  8. Well that's some serious insight you've got there hornet, thanks for taking the time to share it with us.

    Only problem is down here in the heartland that isn't strictly true. Cars do attempt to filter, they're just not very good at it.

    You can see it happening on the roads where trams and parked cars converge. The cars will straddle both lanes behind the trams to be better positioned to pass them once the tram has moved forward past the parked cars.

    Unfortunately for us in doing so they impede our progress while breaking the law, because motorcycles could actually filter past the cars legally in this situation.

    On top of which, most cars aren't equipped with the acceleration required to get past the tram before the speed limit is reached where as we are, and we end up getting stuck in a rolling roadblock that brings about some very dangerous situations.

    One rule for them, another rule for us. As i said, thanks for sharing but in future don't bother, this conversation is outside of your scope of comprehension.

  9. Guys Chef asked people stay on topic I will ensure that this will be on topic strictly according to the wishes of the OP.
    No name calling no arguing no off the cuff remarks what are not helpful.
  10. is it getting that bad down there you can be done for such speed just because the douchebag cop says you were going that fast?
    that's nuts!
  11. Summernats - Canberra I think it was 1993 or 1994

    I was in the city with the editor of the car magazine I used to freelance for - we were there from like 6pm to 10pm just scoping for cars to feature in the magazine

    We were parked at a petrol station ( with permission of staff ) just flagging down prospect feature cars as they cruised past.

    So anyway about 10pm we decide to head up to natex to scope for feature cars there - we went past natex ( by the way we were driving in a black rx3 coupe that was standard and not loud fully legal etc ) up towards the old drive in and took a legal right turn to go back to the city

    A bunch of about ten cops was there and one of them flagged me over and stopped me - in the back ground others police were shouting "its a rotary defect it ".

    So myself and the editor are in the car - the police officer grabs me by the nose through my window twists it and says "ive seen you hooning up and down here all night you little cuunt - so **** off out of here or we will impound your car and drive it back to the station for you the hard way "

    I didn't argue anything with him it wasn't worth the agro plus he had 9 other officers as "witnesses" ,unfortunately it was an era before cheap portable video cameras so it would have been the word of two against 10 - who would the magistrate believe as I assure you had I done something about this police abuse the 10 of them would have falsified evidence etc.

    had we had a video camera to film the physical abuse believe me I would have made sure it met front page news nationally.

    from that day on I lost all respect for ANY mother****er that wears any type of police uniform - it opened my eyes to the types of cockheads that become Police Officers -- those fukks that got bullied at school and want to get even with the world for the chip they have on their shoulder.
  12. Thanks mate, some days I swear to God ](*,)

    Yep, cops can pretty much say whatever the hell they like without providing a shred of evidence when it comes to traffic matters. Their testimony is considered evidence.

    Not really a problem when you have fair and unbiased police looking after things, you strike the odd bad apple but it used to be the exception instead of the norm.

    But with Ken Lay and the Vicpol hierarchy being antagonistic towards us it's beginning to filter down to the frontline and we're seeing it first hand.

  13. First up let me give my apologies, because I've managed to steer my own thread off topic even after explicitly asking for it not to. Sorry 8-[

    I wasn't specific enough about the thread topic to begin with, I wanted to talk more about riders who believe they have been unfairly targeted rather than just focusing on abuse of power.

    So if it's ok I'd like to use your post to steer things back on topic.

    I can relate to the story you shared because over the years I've been witness to a few occasions where there is clearly an abuse of power taking place. And like yourself it's the feeling of powerlessness to be able to defend yourself from it that builds the resentment.

    I've said it before but it's worth repeating here, the difference between a cop and a pig is, a cop will do you for something whereas a pig will do you for anything.

    There's no doubt you came across a group of swines.

    The problem we're facing here in Victoria now is, instead of the odd one two out there prepared to abuse their power, we now have the heads of police doing it, and giving commands to the front line to do it. It's not just a matter of zero tolerance being acted upon, it sometimes crosses the line into prejudice.

    The comments made on 3AW and subsequently in the broader media can only be considered prejudice. We've been prejudged, and they're using the media to build a bias against us.

    In the same way that the broader public wouldn't have a care in the world of what happened to you at Summernats, because in their minds if you were there you must have done something to bring it on yourself, or perhaps they just believe you are guilty by association.

    Now where else have we seen that rationale? Outlaw Motorcycle gangs perhaps? Didn't they go so far as to pass and enact legislation formally labeling them guilty by association? That's a very ugly precedent that was set there, it shows just how far they are prepared to go.

    The general public didn't bat an eyelid, they were pre-primed and led to believe 'guilty by association' was a good thing for them, because in their mind they weren't associated so they were protected. How naive.

    Is that what we've got on our hands here? When Neil Mitchell says to the largest listening audience on radio "all motorcyclists are hoons", did he not just label us all guilty by association? Did he not just pre-prime the public for the next bit of legislation that will be brought in to be used against us?

    Ken Lay knows the figures, he knows them off by heart because it's his job to know them. Not a word was spoken in our defense by the department and the person that is charged with the protection of our rights, by the very person who knows better. It will not be forgotten.

    Simon Overlay agreed with Neil Mitchell when he said, "it appears they have condemned themselves doesn't it?"

    Well if we're condemned then that Nazi bald headed prick can't wait to pull the switch. It will not be forgotten.

    You make a good point Motolegion, a very good point. If you had a camera with you it could of been used to defend yourself.

    Thankfully nowadays that's exactly what we've got, and there are a myriad of different ways they can be used to defend ourselves, and there are countless cameras out there we can use. They film us to secure a conviction, we can do the same :)
  14. Okay Chef -- but I was trying to point out that I was unfairly targeted - due to my choice of transport

    At that time 1970's mazda rotaries were a "splinter group" of the performance car scene -- they had become cheap and plentiful so the young guys owned them - plus for not much $$$ you could make them eat 95% of V8 cars - they were light nimble and fast

    Trouble is - a few ( not all ) made them real loud - so this annoyed cops and joe public

    Hence the owners became a group to target for a crackdown

    Last couple of years we have seen it happen to the "jap turbo import crowd" become targets

    Then the powers that be targeted onto P platers in general and told them what they could and could not drive

    now its motorcycle riders being targeted

    which group will it be next ? - white camry drivers who alloy wheels and dare drive on a public road on the third sunday of the month are they the next target.

    The formula the powers that be utilise to abuse power and corral people into being docile obedient sheep is not new - the enforcers have had a lot of time to refine and practice it.

    These cockheads involved in legislating and enforcing HAVE to have a target constantly to simply justify their existence.

    The target is what changes not the cockheads
  15. Yep I can see the parallels. They'll go after whatever soft target they can line up to be their bunny.

    They bit off more than they can chew with the OMCs and it turned around and bit them on the arse. All they did was unify and make the clubs more powerful. We can learn from that. ;)
  16. Agreed Chef --
  17. You stand to gain much support from HOG owners + other similar clubs with the whole hooning thing. Even radio idiots couldnt criticise harley owners of being hoons*

    * just that they're all drug dealers and murderers :?
  18. this is more a minor annoyance than a major drama, but i"ll post it anyway, because it just happenned to me yesterday... i mean it happens to me a lot, but this occassion was different and i think relevant.

    often when i approach an intersection and the lights are red or just turned red, i may have no vehicles ahead of me in my lane, affording me pole position at the lights, for lack of a better term.
    though all too often a vehicle in another lane will suddenly pull out, without indicating or looking or any any warning and jump in front of me... crossing the single continuous lane line at the head of the intersection to do so... (you are not allowed to do that in vic http://www.roadrules.vicroads.vic.gov.au/6_rule_u-turns_and_overtaking.html)
    i mean i'm always ready for it, but i should'nt have to constantly worry about it, because they're not allowed to do it... just that drivers here don't give a **** because they're never actually going to be penalised for it.

    case in point, yesterday i approached the intersection FTG rd and Springvale rd, Brandon Park shopping center to my left.
    i was in the middle lane no cars ahead of me, lights turned red up ahead...in the lane to my left were three cars, the car at the rear being a police patrol car.. solid white line as slowing to stop at the red... and the car directly in front of the patrol car jumps into my lane just in front of me at the last second.
    so now i'm sitting there directly next to the police car, having come to a slightly more abrupt stop than i'd planned... i just looked over at the cop and threw my hands up in the air to signal my dispair.
    and he did nothing, ..obviously pre-occupided with something else, there is a cop shop just down the road and they come and go frequently ..but he definately witnessed it.
    if it's not his job to enforce the road rules, then who's job is it.

    because i mean i managed to pull up in time, but what if there was a car behind me.

    i'm nearly at the point where i just won't ride without a camera.