Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

[VIC] Speeders to wipe off demerit points by going to class

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Hotcam, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Good idea- will get people to change their behaviour

  2. Good idea- my get-out-of-ban-free card

    0 vote(s)
  3. Bad idea- will encourage speeding and not change driver behaviour

    0 vote(s)
  4. Bad idea- will allow them to justify installing more cameras

    0 vote(s)
  1. I can't decide whether this is a good idea or a bad one...
    is it just to make acceptable the handing out of more speed camera fines?

  2. Re: [VIC] Speeders to wipe off demerit points by going to cl

    possibly, but the value of education is always high. The Brits and Yanks have had what they call 'traffic school' for quite a while now - pity we've not yet heard anything about their response to the initiative in this Australian submission.

    Then again, I think this quote is better in its fixt form
  3. I think it's an interesting idea, but I don't think limiting it's scope to speeding is doing anybody any favours.

    It's funny, Victoria has a mindless obsession with speed. Sure, it's a form of dangerous driving, but not the only one. In my opinion many more accidents are due to inattention, fatigue, failure to give way or lack of headchecks - or Pedestrian stupidy. These aren't as easy to police or fine, so the government shifts focus to something that can be clearly booked.

    Victorian drivers have much greater problems with their attitudes and skills on the road, and speed is only one small aspect of that.
  4. come on, at least they acknowledged some other things

    it is attitudes that schools like this try to change, nothing more.

    If that attitude becomes a new 'time and place' instead of 'i always have to be first', then you've still achieved a valuable aim.
  5. The idea of sending people with NFI on how to drive safely to school makes sense to me... And I'll have to be honest this describes a large proportion of road users. My key concirn is that most people attain there demerits through speeding, and that will probably be the focus of any such cariculum. And it would be unlikely to acctually adress all of the other sh!t things drivers do.
  6. One side of me suggests that it may be a good thing.

    The other side just reads it as "re-education camp"

  7. These demerit points are a complete and utter toss.

    A full time driver stands a much greater chance of getting a TIN for a slight transgression than most other drivers.

    The majority of speed limits are incorrect. Take the Western Ring Road. At Ardeer there are roadworks. Well there were. The section between Ballarat Rd and Fitzgerald roads are sign posted at (80) due to the shoulder being closed. It is not closed, has not been closed for weeks since that section was completed but no, lets leave the speed limit reduced and we'll place a cop there to book people.

    The M1 at Point Cook, there have been roadworks there for over a year now. I drive that section in fear each and every time preying that the goose that is doing 100+km/h through there has seen me doing 80 and is about to go around me. This section is rarely policed.
    Victoria could strip a billion dollars a year out of motorists at this point alone but largely chooses to ignore it. Why? because there is a robot at the end of the roadworks section taking happy snaps?

    Speed, speed, speed, is all we hear about. Hardly any other offense is policed [1].

    I drive for a living and see the most amazing acts if idiocy on the roads and I find it amazing that our road toll isn't 300 a week let alone a year.

    Speeding is the easiest to police and therefore targeted more than any other offense. It is cheaper to deploy robots to take happy snaps rather than a real cop on the road policing.

    Mobile phone use is out of control. That part of the law is mostly ignored by the majority of drivers. Cameras can't take photos of these drivers.

    [1] I got pinged for straight lining a deserted roundabout. $116 and no demerit points.
    The cop was a complete ass. The tosser flew off the handle at such a small transgression. Kept calling me a dickhead throughout the lecture.

    Ok, I committed an offense, sure, but for this banana to completely lose it and start with the abuse was hardly justified.
    I accept the TIN and will pay my fine but I can assure you that I will escalate his handling of the matter to his superiors. Stupid weed thought he was someone far more speshool than me ;)
  8. So how many times can you get to 8 points, and do the training to free up your bag? Forever? User pays no doubt..that means those that can afford, win. Thats why we have points as well as fines.

    I'd be happy with at 8 points, automatic driver/rider training, without the trading of points.
  9. This entire proposal only goes to strengthen the view that we are all viewed as criminals, period.

    The penalties for trying to avoid detection are 'felony' level, compared to someone actually causing an incident through stupidity, inability or carelessness.

    The love affair with speed is a result of decades of mis-information and inter-governmental propoganda, which has cemented itslef within thier culture over time (as the old saying goes. If you whistle a tune long enough, other will start singing along).

    But you are dead on Vic. Speed is the only mechanism by which they can automate a cash drone that sits mercilessly on a highway without the benefit of situational analysis.
    As long as it keeps the coffers brimming, the grip will only keep tightning.
  10. The bit that stood out to me was the above quoted section. They've jumped straight from demerit points to "dangerous driving". So, yay, they're going to parade around a bunch of cripples (that got paralysed while joyriding in their dad's SS) in front of a bunch of everyday drivers who got pinged for 113 on the motorway. How fcuking boring.
  11. Re: [VIC] Speeders to wipe off demerit points by going to cl

    What kind of driving education do they have in mind to teach someone not to speed? "Speeding is baaaaad.. You should not speed, cause it's baaaad"?

    So why do we speed?
    a) Life runs in frantic speed, too much work, no time left for family and friends, If you step on it, you gain 10 min.
    b) You boss asks to to run like hell, you drive for a living and more speed=more money etc..
    Let me educate you. That is baaad. You don't need to hurry up and go home, they don't need you, they have the TV on.

    I have 9 points. One was 62km/h at a 50 zone(DD) and the other 72km/h at a 60 zone.. So what kind of education do i need?

    We need more education, but all of us, not only the ones with 8 points..

    How about educating the 4x4 truck drivers parking at a shopping centre or reversing on their kids at their driveway?
    How about educating the mobile phone users or those who ash their cigarettes outside the window and in to my face?
    How about educating drivers and riders on emergency braking and driving/riding in the rain?
    How about educating old people not to drive.

    "meetings with trauma victims", as if the hospitals don't have anything else to do, but accommodating tours around their yards.. If it was some actual work in hospitals, cleaning floors full of blood after an operation, that would be educational..

    Anyway, the article is crap:
    News Limited :roll:
    From absolute certainty to absolute decline..
    1)drivers wipe off demerit points
    2)drivers will be given the chance to wipe off demerit points
    3)The Government is studying the proposal
    4)A government spokesman declined to comment
    This is not news, this is News crap on crap and a living for John Masanauskas, whoever the fcuk he is
  12. i like the idea, where can i sign up, so i can have back 3 points :grin: :wink:
  13. Stupid idea

    Ive already done driver/rider classes in the past without losing points, so i should be able to wipe off future points.

    and how is this victorian idea going to work with the national points scheme, victorians get points wiped off and all other states dont

    just ask your state to sign post their speed cameras like we do
  14. they should do more to encourage the drivers that have all their points and can be proved that they are good drivers.

    I consider myself a good driver but would still be interested in doing a defensive driving course, as that can only make me better :)

    I think this system would be good for the people who managed to get a whole kit'n'caboodle of TINs in one go, and are on the verge of losing their license. Sometimes the whole TINs are caused by a grumpy copper (and perhaps an arrogant driver/rider)
  15. Question is why do people have to lose points to go to these classes?? Why dont they just make EVERYONE do the classes!
  16. Exactly. People who speed aren't necessarily bad drivers, and someone who drives a lot is far more likely to rack up points for minor speed infringements than a 90 year old half-blind pensioner who only drives once a week (but is a genuine danger to everyone when they do).
  17. If everyone was made to do the classes, some (many?) would be exposed as incompetent to drive, and driving is MY RIGHT goddammit! LOL! You get my point...discrimination would come into it.
    Anyway, I strongly disagree with points AND fines, why not make it one or teh other?

    The other thing I don't see mentioned by anyone is this: does ANY training count?
    I mean, can I rack up say 11 points on a long weekend, and go do Superbike school to wipe it off??

    Regards, Andrew.
  18. I'd like to be able to do the courses to earn credits.

    Then I may be able to ride to work without being so obsessed with where the greed cameras are all the time.
  19. Excellent, excellent idea, might just work for genuinely dangerous speeding offenders (think excessive speed in poor conditions, residential areas, etc).
  20. +1 to this. this smacks of the over-the-top TAC ads designed to shock and sicken.

    I'm all for a scheme like this, if it involves real driver training and education. It should be free as well. We've paid for this already in fines. If the justice system was serious about keeping the roads safe then the fine monies should be invested in making the roads safer through schemes such as this.

    I suspect that if this does come about (and I think it's unlikely to get through), then it will amount to nothing more than a way for people to buy 3 demerit points (literally) through by paying for a course, and have very little positive effect.

    Perhaps the education should be free and mandatory at set demerit point boundaries. I'm one of the 30000 with 8 demerits and I wouldn't have a problem with this. At least I'd feel like I was getting something out of it - unless of course it was a bunch of crippled people just trying to make motorists feel bad, as opposed to real driver education.

    (ps. first post - be gentle :) )