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[VIC] Lowest Road Toll Ever...

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by mjt57, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. http://www.theage.com.au/national/states-road-toll-hits-record-lows-20091231-lkz0.html

    A professor at MUARC suggests that the road users doing a few kays over the limit are not the ones causing serious crashes. Rather, it's the excessive speedsters, he says.

    He also advocates the use of WRBs down the centreline of roads "what countries such as Sweden are doing..."

    Now, why is Sweden the nirvana of road safety? Given its geographical location, its different culture and so on, how can what happens there be relevant to here?

    I personally think that the guy's on crack if he thinks that these WRB installations will make roads safer.

    You gotta be suspicious of people when they are in a position to recommend the use of such products, I reckon.
  3. If your walking around with your eyes shut and ears closed its kinda hard to see or hear the backlash isn't it?
  4. Are you kidding me? Name me any politician that has been voted out of power in Victoria on the basis of the existing speed camera policy. Name me any organised mass marches in the streets centered on anger around the existing speed camera policy.

    In some localised areas within the USA, marches have happened, and politicians have been voted out of office, because the populace didn't want speed cameras. Those areas don't have speed cameras now.

    In Victoria, I reckon half the populace would have a grumble about a speed camera ever 100m, but they still wouldn't do anything about it politically or socially.
  5. Eight people less killed in 2009 compared to 2008. Not statistically significant.

    Any number of diseases kill way more people than traffic accidents.

    You are right Stew, but it would take a lot to get people to stand up and say they don't want them, when all the do gooders would be asking why you want to kill babies.

    I reckon Ken Lay just got a really big bonus for reducing the road toll, and that that is his only motivation for his zealous approach to the speed kills message. How do we look up his remuneration package?
  6. Babies shouldn't be driving cars, it's dangerous ;)

    Interesting point, He is Assistant Commissioner level so the Auditor General's report will probably give you gross figures but you will never find the fine detail. I don't think the Police are entirely to blame for this simplistic approach to road safety issues. Simple mantras please politicians because they translate in media sound bites well. We are all to blame because we allow the media to get away with not analysing the situation in detail. Most peoples eyes glaze over when any detail is mentioned.

    The solution is change one simple message for another "Speed Kills" for "Road Skills Save Lives".
  7. Eight people less killed in 2009 compared to 2008. Not statistically significant.

    spot on!!!

  8. Already a bullshit argument there as soon as this discredited organisation is mentioned, the "researchers" should all be decapitated and have shit shoved down their openings.
  9. ok, we are talking about completely different levels of backlash.
  10. Honestly. I'm starting to get so tired of all this rot that I'm actually starting to really not even care.

    That said though, MUARC can still kiss my arse.
  11. And here's Ken, today, bitching about how it's outrageous that most road users still break the speed limit. So how did we get a reduction then... eh, Ken?

    Ken's job is safe as long as he can claim to be doing something without reducing revenue, but the day the population actually turn around and obey these ridiculous limits and stop getting fined... well, we'll see how long he lasts then, won't we?
    Never get between a politician and a bag of money.
  12. The media seems to be celebrating the fact that 2009 is the lowest Road Toll on record when in fact for 90% of road users (cars) it certainly was not a good year.

    In fact this group - the majority - actually recorded a 6% increase in 2009 compared to 2008

    In contrast the smaller groups all recorded significant decreases.

    This - IMHO - certainly proves that Enforcement and TAC scare tactics don't work. The Govt and media place the responsibility for reducing the road toll on the shoulders of the Police. This is clearly not working.

    This is (IMHO) what we should be stating publicly. Ken Lay is correct to say what he says - it is not good enough - and car drivers are not getting it - and certainly the threat of fines is not making any difference.

    Yet, for motorcycle riders - the fastest growing road user group - something else is happening...... Could it be something like the way we interact with each other, the way we try to teach each other to ride better, develop our skills etc?
  13. Yes, I think it could be. Which proves that Driver education not fines will
    reduce the road toll.

  14. Thanks for that. I was wondering whether I was the only one who had that feeling. But was confident that I wasn't in isolation.

    This is the point I tried to ram home to the Police when I (as MRA(vic) President) was invited to address them at their Vision 237 Conference in October 2008. Vision 237 is the tagged that the Govt is aiming at getting the Road Toll down to 237 over this decade.

    They have picked all the lower level fruits - i.e. Enforcement driven fines etc - now the hard bit starts. I think we riders can take a big leadership role in this area.
  15. I've been pushing that barrow for years. Germany has extensive driver training and a per capita road toll similar to ours despite their road sections of generous speed limits, inclement weather (lots of snow/ice/etc), and so on.

    Any time driver education has ever been raised to the point where some politician makes mention of it, they always trot out misguided information that better driver training leads to drivers taking more risks, and therefore is dangerous and costs money.

    That appears to be the prevailing attitude in the hierarchy today in Victoria/Australia and it will take some strong lobbying for it to change.
  16. Is it in Finland where young drivers must pass a physical test on a skid pan/track before they are allowed out on the road? I saw it some time agon on TV (so it must be true!).

    people need to be trained in how to cope with a car/bike/etc when things get out of control.
  17. I have noted your comments frequently over the last few years.

    Perhaps its time that we formed some kind of group to come together to drive our point home. I would love to hear from you or any like minded people who want to drive things.

    But, I'm mindful of the minefield we may be heading into....
  18. At the recent VicRoads forum I had a VicRoads rep (the Secretary?) on our table whose comment to extra training was that the standard theory was increased training led to increased accidents.

    I tried to point out that on a bike many of the things you did intuitively in an emergency (like slamming on the brakes) were going to dump you on your arse or launch you skywards and you needed to be trained out of them.

    My feeling was he was open to the idea that there was another view but would remain unconvinced until there was some scientific evidence to back our view. Which there is not likely to be while the authorities hold the opposite view.

    Maybe we need to suggest to Monash that there would be a PhD in it for someone who could prove the accepted wisdom wrong.
  19. We suggest nothing to Monash because whatever outcome they make will involve speed cameras and enforcement.
  20. the way to test is is through the insurance companies. take random samples of riders who have crashed and those who haven't and see if there is a difference in training between the two groups. this is called a retrospective study and is common in medicine. can adjust for risk factors such as age, gender etc.

    need MRA or MA to find a cooperative insurance company, but they should be interested in anything that helps explain risk.