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(VIC) How could we improve Traffic Law in this state?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Day, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Based on another thread where Ktulu and I had started a discussion on Traffic Law and issues with it, I felt we could have a discussion on the issues with the current system and have constructive input into how to improve it.


    What are problems with the current system?
    Is the system antiquated and in need of updating?
    How could we improve it?
    What is worth keeping?

    I put this as a Vic centric thread to try and keep it from getting confused as each state is different and would suggest if interested people start a thread for their own state.

    I look forward to some good input.


  2. One thing I would like to see is "Turn left at any time with care", I have seen this in other states & I like it, makes sense.

    Problems... Hmmm. Many, seems like a single car breakdown or accident & everything turns to sheet. Not sure how to fix that though...

    Don't get me started on the problems! :grin:
  3. Yeah when I lived in Sydney, the left turn rule was good.

    As far as break down's etc, That is an infrastructure issue. I was focusing more on the actual Road Rules themselves and the process of Law as it stands here. How a person defends them self. How court process works and can be improved. Is it fair? I hope that clarifies it.

  4. Insipid speed rules.
    Cars and bikes are safer to ride/drive at higher speeds yet roads like the geelong freeway are waaaay too low for the conditions.
    Raise the speed to 110 at least for such a good road now.
    I also like the idea of variable speed signs like you see at kids school crossings where, according to the conditions etc you raise or lower the limits.
    many a time I have seen some scary shit in appalling conditions.
    Make lane filtering clearly legal where roads permit it and make trucks and heavy vehicles stick to the outermost lanes thus freeing up traffic in the inner passing lanes. England has the right idea regarding Truck lanes.

    Where do I begin?
    You have opened a can of worms here :)
    Edit: Regarding road rules, allow police more discretion as this has been taken away by stealth, this can help free up the courts from the more frivolous legal challenges.
  5. That was my intention. There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about the Road Rules and many ideas as to what should be rules and how things are treated by the courts. You never know, there may be such a good idea here that it can be put forward to assist in making a change. :)

    Perhaps the results from here can be put into a survey to gauge rider concerns and input that can then be put forward?
  6. Mandatory traffic penalties in Victoria are out of proportion with the apparent crime.
  7. Because it's simple revenue raising.

    Sorry to take this slightly off topic, but to Rob:

    I had a discussion with a guy from Toronto the other day and the subject of Vic speeding fines etc came up. He said the same thing happens in other parts of the world but that it's all a crock. Why? Because if the government really believed that speeding was such a danger to all and sundry then they'd make the punishment for infringements so much more severe - eg Fine people $5000 + for being 3 k's over and instant loss of license! That's extreme of course but it would put an end to all of the supposed carnage on our roads :roll:

    But they don't because it's too great of a money spinner for them.

    Having said that, I'd like to see the penalties for speeding reduced and the penalties for other more dangerous actions (tailgating, mobile phone use, non-indication etc) go up and actually be enforced!
  8. What do you mean by improve?

    What is the goal of traffic laws:

    - to improve road safety?
    - to provide an income for the state government?
    - to reduce congestion and improve efficiency of transport?

    Truth be told, looking at suicide statistics - there is no problem of safety on our roads. Incidents of accidents, injury and fatality are pretty minimal for number of trips and kilometres traveled.

    Yet the government has upped fines and points for YEARS to 'fix' this problem that they keep telling us is huge and hasn't gone away despite their best efforts.
  9. +1 Dougz... but those behaviours are too hard to police... so they don't make it into the the policing priorities. :roll:

    The reality is that any speed above 30km/h can result in spinal injuries. Any speed above 40km/h can result in death. Since we're legally allowed to travel at speeds above these, there will always be fatalities and injuries on the road while there are varying skills, varied vehicle technology, variedy vehicle states of repair, varied road and climatic conditions and fallible human decision making and other human factors involved in driving on the roads.

    The ever increasing enforcement is a blind stupid but simple approach to "road safety".

    It is hard to escape the money spinner conclusion...

    Ktulu makes a bloody good point... and just to reinforce it, there are more folks dying from <insert reason>, smoking, junk food, alcohol, skin cancer etc but there's no philosophically myopic and oppressive attitude against those factors.
  10. Get someone who actually drives to make the laws, not some politician who is trying to ensure his career is going places............
  11. On freeways:
    Trucks in 2 LH lanes only.
    Keep left except when overtaking.
    No overtaking on the left.

    Works in the UK.

    Lane sharing is use of the road that another vehicle is not using. I can't see a problem with that, below certain speeds, when traffic is stationary or close to.

    On a side note. If they narrow the lanes over Westgate anymore, only motorcycles will be able to use it.
  12. There already is a law for that. It's just not being enforced enough that's the problem :? They crack down on speed but doing other stupid shyte like cut in front of a fast moving truck without indicating to come to a stop at a red light while talking to your mate on the phone is apparently awrite to the authorities as long as the dude's not speeding :roll:
  13. Mine pet gripe is not a change to the rules, just to change traffic management practices:

    EVERY right-turn arrow that currently exists, should be in use - ALL the time.

    This business of only employing them during peak hour, and only to the advantage of the heaviest flow of traffic, is f$%^ked. Why should it only be safe to turn right for a couple of hours a day? Why should it only be safe to turn right if you are going in a particular direction?

    Currently they are used to ease flow for commuters heading in to town in the morning, and out of town in the evening. But this directly disadvantages everyone else, who are already facing the most difficulty in making a safe right-hand turn.

    Protected right hand turns should be employed whenever and wherever it is possible to do so. Costs nothing, doesn't even need a change of law. Will save lives. (especially motorcyclists).
  14. The reality is that you can trip over at 2km/hr, hit your head on a coffee table and die.

    You guys have wonderful ideas for new rules and improved enforcement for things that are dangerous - these idea could only be realised at a cost to the community.
    Sure, some chick on a mobile phone or putting her make-up on is dangerous: BUT if you didn't have to be so afraid of harsh punishments for speeding - you wouldn't be anywhere near such dangerous people.

    They wouldn't be a danger to anyone with eyes in their head, because those people would ge the hell away from such morons.
  15. Trucks in leftmost most lane only.

    Traffic infringement fines used to fund compulsary driver skills courses.

    A massive increase in the difficulty in acquiring and maintaining a license.
  16. Interesting seeing the calls for trucks in left lane only. I'm tipping none of you rocket scientists have ever driven one. No? Didn't think so.

    Get people learning how to merge, travel at the speed limit etc. and you will not see as many heavy vehicles in the right lanes. Cause and effect. The fact is, untiil the other issues are actually sorted out, putting trucks in the left lane only will be an absolute disaster. Not to mention the fact that not all trucks are equal and the weight and size of loads carried is especially varied.

    The number of laws/rules we have already is plentiful. Simple, appropriate application of enforcement and opening up the freedom of things like filtering will help get some order back to the traffic.

    Biggest one as far as I am concerned, re-introduce the presumtion of innocence for speeding fines.
  17. Typical truckie's response.
    It's ok to hog ALL 3 lanes on the monash most mornings and leaving a 20 car gap in front though isn't it?
    What you said is a cop out.
    Until SOME truckies modify their behaviour as well and LEARN to stay to the left like in most other civilized countries then the road system would work better.
    It goes both ways bud and as a motorcyclist I've seen the worst in all manner of driving from all manner of vehicles.
    Trucks should never be 3-4 abreast hogging all the lanes.
  18. Do you even have the faintest idea what the hell you're talking about?

    Let me hold your hand here for a moment.

    1. You could have bloody rickshaws across the Monash during the morning peak and it wouldn't make the transit to work any slower. This is due to a phenomenon called, 'congestion'. This happens when there are more vehicles travelling on a given piece of road than what it was designed to carry.

    2. Leaving a sufficient gap in front of your vehicle is appropriate to avoid collisions. Given the inability of the average motorist to lift their point of vision further forward than the bumper of the car in front, it is prudent to have that extra space to allow for numb nuts jumping on the anchors. The other advantage of leaving an appropriate gap is that this acts as a slight buffer to the concertina effect that results from sitting on the arse of the vehicle in front.

    3. Where does all traffic enter/exit a freeway from? That's right, the outside lane. You propose restricting the longest, heaviest vehicles to the lane which has motorists wanting to move into for the purposes of entering the fwy or exiting the fwy. Given the aforementioned inability of the average motorist to merge, this will result in on ramps clogged with traffic, unable to fit in to the traffic stream as morons jump on the brakes, rather than try and match speed with the traffic and merge. The same goes for the fools that decide that they want to exit right now and cut other traffic off as they change lanes. Now, a lesson in physics for you, a 60 tonne B-double, a 40 tonne semi or even a 12 tonne heavy rigid does not stop in a hurry. When these vehicles have a coming together with said fool, the fool loses and traffic goes to crap as everyone now has to operate in two lanes and then rubbernecks.

    Certainly, the keep left unless overtaking rule needs to be applied to all vehicles but when you have traffic travelling at 90km/h in a 100 zone, do not expect a truck to sit in behind the traffic doing 90. They will overtake and they do take more room to fit into gaps in traffic. When other traffic refuses to move or allow them space to come back into a lane they will stay out where they are since they can go nowhere else.

    So, you evidently have never driven a truck and have little idea of the challenges that are part of the job when dealing with traffic. I have driven trucks for a living, I also ride frequently and have likely covered more km than your good self. We all see stupid things on the road but I accept your ramblings about truck driving pointers about as well as you would from some airhead on their P plates trying to give you pointers about the finer aspects of bike control.

  19. Let me "hold your hand about the rules for posting in this thread"
    This thread will not stray far from the topic.
    You speak as a Truckie and you have your agenda
    Re read what I have said, I've bolded the important bits, take it all in and then go outside before you have a heart attack.
    Any more straying from the topic and pushing your own personal agenda and I will moderate this thread
  20. I meant what I said and I said what I meant, the OP is entitled to have his thread talked about 100%.