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[Vic] Electronic Identifiers on the horizon for Victorians

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by van, Sep 26, 2008.

  1.  Top
  2. I don't get hysterical over rumours.
    This thread should be locked. :roll:
  3. Even Vicroads know who 'Uncle Damian' is. Do you seriously believe they would entrust information on policy development of this kind to the likes of him? My guess is that both he and 'George' are completely out of the loop now and looking to make some ripples.

    We have a much better source than that now, don't we...
  4. You know something - I don't know why our friend "whose name I cannot mention" thinks that this is a Victorian based issue.

    The fact is - the technology is out there. If it is introduced - it will be by all states and for all types of vehicle.

    The person named has a motorcycle paranoia and a Victoria fixation. Seems that this person can't see that if this technology is introduced that it will extend to every road user - and the Privacy Lobby will come out and oppose it - motorcycle riders won't have to do anything - they will just be able to sit back and watch others argue over its introduction.

    BTW - MRA(Vic) and AMC are aware of this technology. It was discussed at the Motorcycle Summit. Our position is that if introduced - it must be for all road users.......

    Is it coming? Yes it is.

    Will it be here soon? I don't think so.

    Is it just about us motorcycle riders? Nup.
  5. The question is, will we be getting free Soylent Green with our tracking devices?
  6. RAT BIKES! there i said it.

    The Bronze can have their Interceptors and their Levy's and their gadgets, and we shall have Ratbikes.
  7. What a crock of shit.
    People must be pleased to pay a lobby group an annual membership so that they can feel at ease that you are happy to have it introduced provided it is for all road users. :shock:

    Sit back for a second and think, nothing that they have done has helped in reducing the road toll.
    All they have succeeded in doing is "legally stealling" from the public by way of fines for just about everything.

    As a lobby group I'd expect you all to say "you can fcuken jam it and any other form of vehicle tracking"

    Why must we tell the ****s our every move?

    tsk tsk tsk
  8. Now thats a clever reference... and an old one...
  9. I agree with VIC, and this kind of technology begs the question - if they really care about us not speeding then they'd preferentially link these devices to an automatic speed limiter - not just charging us for what may be no more than a slip of the wrist/foot.

    Obviously that would be more difficult and costly, but I'd prefer (wouldn't like it though :p) to see an interest in us as people, not merely providers of revenue.
  10. This is exactly why the MRA(vic) has such a poor reputaion. That is the stance of a weak pansy who'd be too scared to shit with the door open for fear of upsetting the Premier or risking a VMAC seat. What planet are you guys on these days? Seriously, you can't blame all your bad publicty on your paranoid belief that NSW publications have an unfounded, sociopathic desire to bully you when you make statements like that. :?

    If it is introduced it will most certainly be trialed on bikes first because the government knows the privacy lobby won't give a toss (and apparently niether does the bike lobby). They might then try it for everyone else and the privacy lobby might well fight, but even if the fight is successful the bikes will remain fitted with the technology.

    Wake up! You are the bike lobby. If the best you can do is publicly support the governments agenda for revenue raising while hoping the privacy lobby does your job for you, it's not hard to see the logic in those publication's arguments. :shock:
  11. No way is this thread gonna be locked.
    Until the MRA vic gets its act together and flatly opposes any such big brotherism then stuff em
  12. Well said Seany, the MRA Vic should be fighting this tooth and nail! :evil:
  13. This is a heap of crap. It's an in-car add on to a GPS system that beeps (or flashes a light) when you go over the speed limit. In other words when you drive down a street, your r Navman or Garmin or whatever not only knows it's in Lygon St but knows it's also got a 40kph speed limit in this section and tells you if you're over.

    It's intended to be similar to the overspeed function in most cars. It stores no information and transmits no information. It can also be turned off.

    It's definitely not useful for identifying you or telling that you've broken the law.

    Seany - if any RFID system for identification is introduced then it will be for all road users - and it won't be a motorcycle issue. It will be a civil liberties and privacy issue.

    Believe me - it won't be trialled first on bikes because of the technical difficulties. Queensland did a study and abandoned the idea. It would probably be trialled on trucks and heavy vehicles first - a community who are used to being heavily monitored and who the public see as needing to be carefully watched.

    The all vehicle comment by John is just that - all vehicles used on the roads - and this includes bicycles. In fact, given levels of theft and identifaction problems with bicycle offenders you can make a very good case that bicycles should be fitted with electronic id way before any other road user.

    Read the draft policy on this I posted. See the conditions that would need to be set in stone before we would consider any acceptance. I said consider - not accept. Prof Marcus Wigan and I have been looking at this and we'll be meeting again when he gets back from the UK. Marcus is the immediate past chair of the Surveillance SubCommittee of the Australian Privacy Foundation.

    You can read his comments on the Myki ticketing system and especially the privacy issues here.

    Another paper co-authored by Marcus on the subject of location privacy is available here

    Because we are not running around like paranoids with tin-foil helmets on our heads doesn't mean we are not working on a strategy. What planet are you on Seany that you think that running around whining that you don't want something to happen is the best way to tackle things.

    Personally I think that working with other agencies and other organisations producing evidence-based strategies is the best way to go. Public protest has its place - but only when it's properly organised and targeted - it needs to be something more than riding down a freeway and complaining about a heap of irrelevancies at the other end. Personally I would have targeted the EastLink offices and certainly have had a few people together to brainstorm something more than a couple of speeches about how badly done by we poor down-trodden motorcyclists are.

    How much more effective could that protest have been by having 1000 bikes roll up to EastLink's offices, sit outside rolling their throttles on and off in unison while inside a small delegation presents the management with a list of specific demands, give them a time limit to respond and say we'll be back if we don't get a satisfactory answer. The group then leaves in an orderly and dignified manner.

    Saul Alinsky in his book "Rules for Radicals" makes the comment Use the power of the law by making the establishment obey its own rules. Go outside the experience of the enemy. EastLink wouldn't have known how to deal with that.
  14. So why didn't we see the MRA doing just that? Instead we had Kamouche watching from a bridge, thumbing his nose at motorcyclists he purports to represent.... :mad:
  15. I actually almost went to the protest. Believe it or not - I actually support most of the issues that it was about.

    But, I also know that if I had shown my face there that I would have possibly have been assaulted by the organizer - who I am told said to some there that if any MRA people turned up that he would "offer violence".......

    BTW - I don't think rolling up to Eastlink would make much difference.

    Of note is the fact that I have taken out a Breeze Tag account - they gave me a free 2O bucks for my trouble. Have used it 12 times now - they have only recorded 4 trips - is there something wrong with their system? I'm waiting to see......

    I think I am a long way in front where Eastlink is concerned. has anyone else taken out an account, used it and checked Eastlink's billing reporting system. I'd be interested to know if I'm the only one not having all my trips picked up by the fancy number plate recognition system.
  16. FFS smee - We do oppose it. Its very early days and we don't even know much about it yet.

    How can we do any more than we have yet - other than at least prepare ourselves for the onslaught?

    To date all we have heard is rumours and there is actually nothing in the pipeline. Yeah - go off half cocked now and really make things easy for the Govt.

    Where is the Strategy in your statement. Do you have any idea what the word "Strategy" really means and what it entails? I DON"T THINK SO :mad: :mad:

    People whinge about the MRA - but they don't ever stop to think about the right strategy. Wars have been won and lost because someone got their strategy wrong - and I think that if I took advice from some of the people here (not just you smee) then I would be doing our community no favours.

    BTW - I'm all too happy if someone wants to put up their hand and come to me and work with the MRA....... instead of turning it into a "personality shit fight".
  17. As already mentioned they wouldn't trial something like this on bikes but more likely on state government fleet vehicles.

    The company I work for has GPS monitoring on many of it's fleet vehicles (not the one's I use :grin: ) and we keep hearing horror stories of management use of the data against employees.
  18. OT for a second, folks, just testing why Brian's having some probs on Netrider, esp in this section of the forum
  19. Fine. Have a strategy. But make it a good one. As a member, I don't want to see any more statements that start, "If this is introduced..." You give them that one step forward and you'll be steamrollered before you have a chance to squeal.

    This doesn't need to be a personality shit fight, but it should be plain that most people here, including me, believe that making the slightest concession on this proposal is a bad strategy. Understand that if this comes in, it's effectively the end of everything. There is NO room for compromise.

    IMHO, you need to make it plain to government that this proposal will be met with complete refusal and civil disobedience by every damn motorcyclist in the state. Make it clear that this will be the shitfight to end all shitfights, and it won't be instituted without blood and tears - theirs. I'm still not 100% convinced that this is a goer, but if it is, make 'em understand that they are playing with dynamite and it's likely to blow up in their faces. That's what I'd call a strategy.

  20. Who is Brian and what problem is he having?