Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

[VIC] Bike collision - Who Pays??

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by NWRAP, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. I have an insurance question.

    This information is as I have been told... I was not there so cannot speculate on safe gaps or speed.

    Im asking this for a friend who is currently sitting in the doctors waiting to have his shoulder looked at.

    Today he stacked his bike while avoiding an accident in a group ride.

    As I understand it there were 2 bikes in front of him and the accident happened as follows.

    1st bike takes a blind right hand corner over a crest and turns left instead and goes down in gravel.

    2nd bike locks up both wheels and comes to a skidding stop to avoid hitting bike 1

    3rd bike (friend) has to take evasive action to avoid bike 2.. Has to go straight and ends up hitting bike 1 that had been spat across the road as if he went left he would have been off in the gravel like bike 1, if he went right he would have hit bike 2.

    As far as I know all riders are ok..

    Damage to my friends bike is purely cosmetic and he is not sure if he will make a claim against his insurance or not.

    My question is basically who should pay or is at fault when your accident is caused by avoiding an existing one.

    Thanks for any and all advise

  2. Re: Who Pays??

    So not following at a speed or distance to stop safely then?

    I think your answer is right there.

    He should get no joy from claiming against anyone else and the other rider might (bike 1) might claim damage that was caused to the bike from the bike 3.

    Best left to the insurance people to sort out. They do have insurance, don't they?

    I had car crash into a tree, in attempt to avoid me, lying in the road after an accident. Never heard or saw any more of that.
  3. Re: Who Pays??

    As I say I was not there so I will not speculate on speed or safe gaps..

    We both assumed he would be at fault BUT it had us both scratching our heads.

    Thats why we decided to ask the wider community as someone may have been in a similar position.

    Yes as far as im aware all riders/bikes are insured
  4. Re: Who Pays??

    I agree with cejay on this one, if you couldn't avoid the other bikes your mate was following too close...it would probably be different if the 1st bike had say hit something and bounced into his path...

    either way I hope everybody is ok and insured
  5. Re: Who Pays??

    I don't think you have to speculate, because if he was travelling at either a speed or a distance that would allow him to stop safely, the accident wouldn't have happened. It's a bit rough I know, but I'd be pretty hacked off if I was bike 1 and bike 3 tried to pin his accident on me, regardless of my own accident.

    Anyway, insurance is there for a reason. I really hope bike 1 just doesn't mention the damage to his bike that might have been caused by bike 3, as insurance companies have a habit of looking for ways out.
  6. Re: Who Pays??

    let me make it clear... He is not looking for a scape goat to pay for repairs to his bike.

    We were just curious as to who is to blame.

    He has his own insurance to cover his costs if he goes that way.

    yes it sucks but hey thats how it goes
  7. Re: Who Pays??

    well thats the thing he says if bike 1 did not spit across his path he would have made it through the corner with ease
  8. Re: Who Pays??

    Cool, no problem, just explaining as I see it. Most important part is that everyone's ok and has a good tale to tell at the pub!
  9. Re: Who Pays??

    thanks for your replies :)

    Has been helpful to get a general feel for it.
  10. Re: Who Pays??

    If bike 1 already has damage from going off in the 1st place he probably should just claim all his damage from his insurance as a single vehicle accident and not mention bike 3,
    That gives bike 3 the option of claiming his own damage on his insurance , or not if he decides against it. keeps things simpler,
    yes bike 3 obviously didnt leave enough room to stop but would be pretty harsh for bike 1 to claim against him after his misjudgement caused the chain of events
  11. Re: Who Pays??

    So bike 3 comes across a blind crest and he's at fault for not being able to stop in time after a bike has, due to an earlier mistake, blocked the road that prevented bike 3 from carrying on without crashing?

    I had a car spin in front of me some 20 years ago and I clouted the cars passenger door of a 4WD driven by a heavily pregnant woman.

    She was deemed to be at fault despite my inability to stop in time as I was traveling behind her.
    The police stated that it was her fault as she obstructed my path by coming to a rest in the middle of the road.

    She gave birth 3 days later, 1 month prematurely, both mum & baby were fine.
  12. Re: Who Pays??

    Whats that you say ? All three bikes went down avoiding a cow/horse/pig/ roo / alien with anal prob at the ready, that was in the middle of the road !

  13. Re: Who Pays??

    You win :)
  14. Re: Who Pays??

    I Had a situation where my 72 superbug hit a patch of oil travelling at low speeds at the start of braking for a set of lights. The fronts locked up and I almost avoided but ran into the rear end of a driver in front of me at about 10km/h

    I told the insurance company that I had hit the oil and it was the cause of the whole incident.
    They advised me that unless I could prove who put the oil there, then I was liable.

    Extrapolating, if there was nothing your friend could do about avoiding the RIDERS involved in the accident without endangering their own safety, then one could assume (though this usually gets you into trouble with insurance companies) that because of the unavoidable debris on the road that you can prove was put there (incl. unsighted fluids spilled on the road) as a result of the original accident by known people (who are insured) then personal responsibility will most likely by mitigated.

    That would be my take on the whole issue, though there's a good chance they would argue the case, but if there's a policy through which they can claim their remuneration it should be ok.

    Thing to stress would be that in attempting to the best of the rider's ability to avoid hitting the PEOPLE on the road, the other bikes were hit.
  15. Re: Who Pays??

    Normally I'd agree with what everyone else is saying but if the bike has been spat back into the road and you come across it then I would see it as a different matter. It's not as if he stopped safely and your mate hit him he crashed and you got taken out by the debris.

    I had a geeza lose a wheel off his trailer which I hit on the freeway, my insurance claimed and I got paid out...

    I suppose it's what's reasonable to expect laying in the middle of the road...

    opps edit the direction changed between page 1 and 2 I'm with the page 2 types...
  16. Re: Who Pays??

    this is why the question was asked.. I should have not titled it who pays but perhaps whose at fault..

    My friend is not interested in claiming against anyone else it was just a whole question as to who would be reasonably found to be at fault..

    As you can see by the replies its a varied answer.

    Thanks again for some further insight :)
  17. Re: Who Pays??

    Did she name the baby after you Vic??

    You are required to drive/ride in such a way so as to avoid hitting the vehicle travelling in front of you.

    As mentioned exceptional circumstances can be applied but in the middle of a group ride most insurance companies will point the finger at each rider for falling over rather than blame one for stuffing up starting the whole thing.
  18. hmmm, if they where yet to come over the crest, and on the other side was a stopped bike then, then if they toke it to court you might get away (if lucky) with each fix your own ride but i tend to agree with others that is will be deemed you didn't allow yourself enough space.....

    The other question i have in all this is, ok rider 1 screws up, so why didn't rider 2 ride around the turn, and then for rider 3, why didn't he go round the turn too, cos for how it reads rider one went left so he shouldn't of been in the way of rider 2???....something doesn't read right in that and sounds like case lemmings.
  19. If your mate is at a doctors waiting for attention from the stack he has to report it to the police and he should be making a TAC claim. (Accidents resulting in injury or property damage must be reported)
    As for damage I'd be notifying my insurer and assuming all others are insured they can sort it out.

  20. Best advice here.=D>