Separate names with a comma.
Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.
Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Morbo28, Nov 22, 2009.
"be safe from careless motorists" ahahahaaa
hey, heres a better idea. > do something about the careless motorists instead durr.
but no, by defualt and as per usual, the zombies in cars ain't the problem, those bloody riders are.
this BS bus lane idea could not possibly have spawned from experienced scooterists...travelling in that lane, at the same speeds as the other lanes, just becomes a game of russian roulette with cars turning in and out of the intersecting streets.
sure that's ok for cyclists travelling slower and able to pull up quick...and ok for busses because they're clearly visible above the roofline of most other vehicles...but scooters, shit i can and do pat them on the head when i pass them.
all that can come from this is an attitude from drivers that scooters should get back in their own lane.
reality check, that little pissant scooter has just as much rights to be in any lane it wants, as any other vehicle on the road does
I fully understand that scooter riders can be a riskier road user than others as I've seen many a vespa style unit wibble and wobble it's way along the road but I truely believe that this is a 99% rider issue and very little to do with the vehicle itself. Even so, I don't think sticking them in the bicycle lane is an answer and frankly, like MONKEYMAN, I think it makes them an even greater target as well as being a smidge offensive when considering that scooters are still a full fee registered road user.
Additionally as a (sometime) cyclist myself I really don't like the idea of having a scooter, whether it be a 50cc commuter or 500cc armchair, prop 6 inches from my back tyre and crack a tanty because I can only do 30km and they've now been given the right to use the pushie lane.
Lastly, the whinge. I'm a postie and the CT110 gets labeled a motorcycle. Would this mean that in the event that scooters were given access to the bicycle lane that posties would denied it? Would this lane approval be capacity limited and at what point would it be set? Then the age old question. Enforcement?
All things considered, I think it's a silly idea. It's bad for the cyclists and for the scooterists.
I was more interested in the last line of that article:
Um... aren't we hearing from other sources that motorcycle deaths are rising, even if at a reduced rate?
Are we? If so, where?
I've read this article twice now, trying to think of reasons why it's bad.
This scooter guy wants nothing to do with it. But if the option is there to use either the bus or cycle lanes why not take it if it's available and is a better option than either lane splitting/filtering or simply being stuck in traffic?
that was NSW iirc stivor. Only thing that interests me is the note at the end about blitzing the advance boxes at intersections.
I think the more important item to take from this article is the following text:
"Bicycle Victoria has also expressed concerns that cyclists would be put at risk, highlighting police plans to crack down on scooters and other vehicles invading intersection ''bike boxes'', starting next week"
This means our friends in blue will likely be busting foks for using bike lanes as well. Commuters, you have been duly warned.
Ah, my apologies; you are right.
Yes, that leapt out and hit me too. I often cycle to work and there is one particular intersection with VERY LARGE cyclist boxes. The cars are required to wait about 5m back from the intersection. What often happens is that the cars move right to the front just before the pedestrian line. In that case, the cyclists move even further ahead.
From that point of view I would welcome this "blitz", but I suspect it's more about targeting motorcyclists (who, IMHO, should be able to use these boxes) rather than automobilists.
The vicroads stat is correct; 2001/2002 were bad years in Victoria for road fatalities, so their comparisons are always made against these years.
It is sooooo absurd that cyclist can filter to the front, then hold up traffic, when motorcyclists can't filter to the front when we can clear out quickly.
"Bicycle Victoria has also expressed concerns that cyclists would be put at risk, highlighting police plans to crack down on scooters and other vehicles invading intersection ''bike boxes'', starting next week."
This sounds to me like VP are intending to pre-empt the upcoming Vicroads study into sharing of advance stop areas before it can begin. Either that or Vicroads never intended to allow it to happen (despite the PTW strategy).
Mr Bardsley sounds like he is worried that if scooters are given access to bike lanes, they will eventually be restricted to them. Many cyclists are worried about that too (it's kinda Bicycle Victoria/Harry Barber unspoken policy IMHO.)
VACC... I don't know what to say, I am SO angry. They have put their cards on the table. Despite being wrong on practical grounds, they seem to have decided that they want to try to save scooterists lives, but motorcyclists can go to hell. Backstabbing bastards.
This might be a good time to say "we don't want use of the bicycle lanes, guidelines for filtering would be much more effective in increasing safety and reducing congestion"
Agree! Just need a few pre-conditions met (passing on left, and advance stop boxes).
I couldnt agree more. The perverse logic behind it obviously makes sense to someone , somewhere.
I agree in principle, we should push for filtering to be made legal. But there are a number of roads which I travel where you can't filter because it is essentially a one lane road. Uunless you use the perfectly good and usually empty bicycle lane next to you.
I can't see why we shouldn't push for the option of using them to filter.
I also accept that this probably won't happen because this is opposed by the bicycle lobby who are basically more influential than us.
That is not the ony reason. To filter in a bicycle lane is DANGEROUS. Even if you allow it at a slow speed (say 20kph), some will abuse that and accidents will occur.
What utter crap. Bicycles filter at 20 kph. How can that be dangerous?
Where is the evidence to show that motorcycles and scooters are having accidents in while utilising bicycle lanes? Come on - show me the evidence!!! Just take a look around the Melbourne CBD - motorcycles, scooters and bicycles are already using bicycle lanes - thousands of them every day....
The facts is - there is no evidence. Its all in our imagination - is nearer the pin.
This subject is about "efficient road space allocation". PTW and bicycles are narrow width vehicles - which can fit into this road space that can't be used by wider vehicles.
Safety has nothing to do with it. There is no safety issue - that is the BV Smokescreen.
This subject should really be about modifying the law to reflect reality - which is that motorcycles/scooters are already using bicycle lane SAFELY.
Time to wake up guys - we are all being used by BV - and if caught being fined for it!
I wonder if you read what I wrote?
Filtering at 20kph is not dangerous. I'm glad we agree.
Allowing motorbikes into bike lanes will be dangerous. If you were allowed in a bike lane but were required to travel below 20kph, would you:
a. travel in a bike lane
b. keep below 20kph?
Simple answer - Yes. That is probably the speed I normally travel at when utilising a bicycle lane.
Allowing motorcycles into bicycle lanes is NOT dangerous. Why? because there is NO evidence to prove that it is - based on the current usage rate.
Any assertion that allowing motorcycles to utilise bicycle lanes is dangerous - is wrong and not evidence based.
Its all in your mind - yes - you think it might be dangerous - but the evidence is not there to prove that fact.
Its time to remove the "emotion factor" and examine the evidence. The evidence says - all two wheeled vehicles should be allowed to utilise that space on the road into which they fit. Bicycles can ride anywhere on the road they like - so too should motorcycles. Why? Because they are both narrow width vehicles.