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V Engines

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' at netrider.net.au started by dan_g, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. In the past Honda experimented with V4's. Why did they eventually retire that idea and move to I4? Is it cost, weight, hp?



    Most Motogp engines are V configuration these days. For example the Ducati is a V4, and Honda V5. The Ducati Desmosedici RR, a motogp bike for the road has a V4. But its cost is beyond most ordinary people..

    I heard some rumors that since the new R1 is getting rave reviews for its power delivery. The next Fireblade may have a V5 engine.

    What do you guys think about more Japanese manufacturers experimenting with unconventional engine configurations instead of the old tired I4?
     
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  2. Yup, hoping they make a vfr1000r :)
     
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  3. Isn't the Ducati a L4 and i think Honda dropped the V5 when they went to 800cc ?
     
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  4. Great Idea! I believe the V4 honda engine was very complicated & hard to service, (could be wrong though) this equates to cost.

    There's plenty of oddball stuff out there though, Aprilia RSV4, Triumph's I3 engine, Suzukis RE5 Rotary, (I believe Norton made a Rotary at one point too...) Honda made a lot of small capacity multi cylinder engines back in the day, (ie 250cc inline 6) but was canned when racing rules changed to rule them out. Check out Honda's Oval Piston engine too. Actually most of this stuff is Honda, so yeah, the 2010 CBR may just be a V5... (Although the new R1 has changed the firing order to change power delivery, not engine config)

    There's a mob in Perth (I think...) who'll take your V2 engine & make it a Super Charged V1, using the rear cylinder as the compressor for the super...

    Then you've got the Y2K...

    Most of this stuff, I expect, costs too much to be marketable, unless there is a definite performance advantage over existing technology (like the inline 4)

    All sorts of crazy stuff out there, but the bean counters usually have the last say!
     
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  5. I love the v4 in my VFR. The sound, even with stock pipes and the tone shift when VTEC kicks in, torque, sound.....

    Would sell my soul for a VFR1000.....

    BUT!

    I have the 24,000K service very soon. Debating whether to get the valve shims inspected... This is the BIG one.
     
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  6. A V4 can be more expensive to service but don't let that stop you from buying an Italian superbike especially in its first year in the world supers :)
    Ducati have said the a V4 is the best for raceing and a V twin for road.
    A lot of manufacturers build engines in order to win races as a lot of classes require the bike to be remarkably similar to what is in the showroom.
    Norton are still playing with a rotary and may be doing some races this year mostly as a guest.
    Yamaha and Kawaski are developing their bikes to feel a bit like a twin in reguards to the firing timeing which is said to improve traction.
    There will always be new old and combined ways to build stuff and its success is really up to the public to accept it
     
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  7. whats this about the v2 self charging system? MOAR!
     
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  8. To be fair, a single is probably best for the road. Simple, reliable, cheap, efficient, low service costs. But that doesn't mean that anyone is going to want it.

    Personally I value smoothness and revs over everything. I'd get a small V6 if they sold one.
     
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  9. Modern Superbikes are getting to the point where their making more then enough power, its how that power is delivered.
    The R1 for example stood out this year because of its unconventional firing order, giving the rider more feel of the power.

    I think Yamaha have re started a tech race. Most of the sport bikes these days are similar in looks, weight, hp, price tag. If you build something different, you get the attention from media/public, and hopefully gives customers a reason to upgrade.

    Imagine the 2011 CBR1000RR.. Compact, light, 1000cc V5 revving to 15000rpms... Honda can print messages like "Engine derived from MotoGP" too!
     
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  10. The V4 was, in its cog-driven cam incarnation, very expensive to manufacture.

    It doesn't really matter what they do these days; most of us will only use less than half of the power they make :LOL:.
     
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  11. We won't be seeing any production 1000cc V5's in a hurry, purely because WSBK rules do not allow for any bikes other than 2, 3, or 4 cylinders. If a manufacturer did make one, you can bet that the WSBK organisers would be fairly slow to include it, or if they did include it, they'd penalise it like they've done with the Triumph Daytona 675 in World SuperSport (it carries a 4kg weight penalty which is effectively a comparitive 0.4s/lap time penalty) before it even has a chance to prove itself.

    If Honda do put out a 1000cc V config, it'll be the "safe" V4 configuration.

    I'd hazard a good guess as to why Triumph haven't bothered with a Triple superbike is because WSBK rules limit triples to a 1000cc capacity, while giving 1200cc to the twins. If WSBK opened the triple capacity up to 1100cc then we might see an 1100cc triple from Triumph.
     
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  12. I think I read somewhere Honda are looking to revive their V4 technology over the next couple of years.
     
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  13. I do wish that companies wouldn't restrict themselves to WSBK rules. I don't give a shit which company wins, I'm only interested in the bike on the road. They could really make an innovative and revolutionary bike if they were just willing to challenge the conventional paradigm.

    I'm sure many people would pay top dollar for the fastest litrebike.
     
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  14. whens the all new honda 1000RR coming out?? 2010 or 11?
     
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  15. Three years after the last major remake, whenever that was... :grin:
     
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  16. With the latest noise/pollution regulations the Supersports have less power this year. With the 600's getting to the point where the rpm's can't be raised that much further with these spring vales.
    How the manufacturers will increase hp?

    It would be interesting if they made a V4 for the CBR600RR...
    I think we will see some interesting tech in years to come thanks to the 600cc class replacing 250's in motogp.
     
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  17. Hate to dissappoint ya, but I think not. Especially when the opposition can buy your engine for a fixed price. So why bother developing it and pouring in the $$?
     
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  18. Honda's VFR750/800 engines were expensive to manufacture with the gear-driven cams - but that meant they were over-engineered to b*ggery and very rarely break. I've had 2 VFR's and the one I have now is a mint 2001 model (last model before they opted for VTEC/chain-driven cams, which would be cheaper to manufacture). I love it - sounds fantastic with a Staintune pipe - nothing like it on the road, IMO.

    As for servicing - well I had a BMW R1100S in-between VFR's, along with a BMW F650, and the VFR costs weren't any higher, overall. Nothing much mechanical goes wrong with them, ya see!

    If your bike is coming up for the 24k major with valve-clearance check, don't worry too much - they probably will still be spot on and not require adjusting anyway, unless the beast has been totally abused. Stories out of the UK are that some guys have gotten 400,000 MILES out of one of these engines, so they're built to last alright! :)

    Downside: V$'s are heavy compared to I4, with only similar volumetric efficiency, therefore same power. Power delivery was the forte though, until Yamaha came along with the smarty-pants cross-plane crank I4 in the new R1, which IIRC mimics the power delivery of a V4, almost...
     
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