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VIC Unrestrict my bike when off my LAMS?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by kingkennas, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Hi all

    I've got my license but I'm still on LAMS for another 9 months. I'm thinking of buying a Kawasaki Ninja 650rl (LAMS restricted).

    When I'm off my LAMS in 9 months and have a license to ride anything, is it legal or illegal to derestrict the bike to full power and torque the same as a Ninja 650r?

    If so, what do I have to do to do it and do it legally? What's the process?

  2. To do it legally you have to get the bike deregistered, then recomplianced, roadworthied and registered as the non-LAMs model. Total cost is upwards of $3-4,000, so much cheaper to just sell the bike to another learner and buy a 650R (or in your case just hold out for 9 months).

    Unrestricting it illegally is fairly straightforward, but since it no longer complies with the requirements of its rego you won't have insurance and could potentially find yourself in trouble with the cops if you do something to draw attention to yourself (like crash or get nabbed at a speed even a cop realises isn't possible with a restricted engine).
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Derestricting a 650rl is simple. First remove the throttle stop screw and second remove the jump plug in the loom either under the seat or the pillion seat.

    Being that you'd be on an open licence, therefore legaly able to ride any bike. I would hardly think an insurance claim could be denied as you are meeting your particular conditions in the policy.
  4. I would notify the insurance conpany of any modifications or they may get snitty ;)
  5. We've been through this before. An unrestricted bike no longer meets registration requirements for your state, these exact words featuring quite clearly in at least some insurance PDSs - like the RACV PDS I linked to the last time you stated that modifying a LAMS bike wouldn't affect insurance. Here it is again though, page 25 is where you'll want to be looking:

    If it's registered as a LAMS bike it must meet the LAMS requirements no matter what licence you hold. This is why it has to be re-registered to be unrestricted legally.
  6. What does it mean for a bike to be "registered as a LAMS bike"? Is it something that only applies to the higher-capacity or power-restricted bikes? There's nothing on the registration or transfer of ownership documents for my bike that refers to LAMS or looks plausibly like it. (It's also described as a Honda Solo rather than a VTR250, so goodness knows what the legal situation there is. VIN and engine number are correct, at least.)
  7. Yep, since 4-stroke 250s don't have to be modified to meet the power to weight limit. However a restricted Ninja 650RL is recognised as a completely distinct model to the unrestricted Ninja 650R.

    Of course the introduction of the LAMs laws also made any performance modification of a 250 illegal, which wasn't the case under the old capacity limits (so if you've got an aftermarket muffler on the VTR you've not told your insurer about, you could be just as screwed should you need to make a claim).

    Some people might get away with it, but if you have to say "yes" to that "have you ever had a claim refused" question on an insurance application - you're going to find it's either impossible or painfully expensive to get even the most basic of cover.
  8. just dont buy the bike mate.

    Get something cheaper and not restricted to get you through lams then spend your 10 grand or whatever it is they cost on something good like the new 636 if your a kawa guy.

    Seriously why anyone would spend loads of money on a bike with the equivilant of a brick under its accelerator is beyond me. It will be compromised when your on your lams, as its as heavy as a 650 with the power of a 250, and when you get onto your opens, the 650 ptwin engine really is no comparison to a proper 600 supersports. If your buying it more for sport touring, there are far better options out there.
  9. Modifications to a LAMS motorcycle whilst on LAMS does have a very small risk of voiding your insurance, very small. As jd stated in another thread and yet to produce anything more than hearsay of a friend who found themselves in a bind with insurance.

    I'll be as clear as possible. Once off your LAMS, there is zero LAMS law applicable to you. By derestricting a LAMS bike, you as a non LAMS rider are not strictly breaking any conditions of your licence or insurance policy, maybe registration law.
    If the insurance company were concered about this, every single claim lodge on bikes fitted with aftermarket pipes, filter or even a sprocket change would have thier claims voided. Reality is, it doesn't happen.
  10. FFS :banghead:. That example was provided when you asked for a real world example, and was followed by an insurer's PDS after you requested a copy of an insurers PDS saying exactly what it says.

    RESTRICTED LAMS BIKES ARE REGISTERED AS A RESTRICTED LAMS BIKE. What part of this do you find so hard to understand?

    *Is it a requirement of your policy to inform the insurer of any modifications that would make a LAMs bike non-LAMs - Yes, and I've provided proof of this with the PDS above

    *Does a performance modification or derestriction invalidate the registration of a LAMs approved bike - Yes, and again I've provided proof of this by linking to the legislation on the VicRoads website

    *Do insurers refuse to pay out because of undisclosed or illegal modifications - Yes, and again I provided proof of this with a real world example of a NR member.

    Do you actually have anything whatsoever to back up your argument other than, that's just what you think based on your own limited personal experience? If not, you're not adding anything productive to this thread.
  11. your vehicle is not in a condition that
    meets registration requirements in your
    State or Territory

    I guess you are making reference to this clause? Once again, a non OEM pipe, no OEM air filter can be considered a performance modifiction

    jd, in the same manner as yourself. You stated in another thread you would follow up the outcome of your friends claim. You have not done so.

    So you are basing everything you state on PDS', I'm basing my opinion on reality.
    How often do you deal with insurance claims?

    BTW, don't yell. You look like a brat.
  12. Dougz was going to follow up on the final outcome, and I haven't heard anything. However, that doesn't change the fact the claim was contested due to nothing more than a non standard air filter (that much I do remember). So it can and has happened, and that wasn't even a LAMs restricted bike.

    The LAMs legislation is also quite clear in that any modification from factory specification is prohibited. This certainly includes non-OEM pipes, and a non-OEM filter (ie any filter which is not certified as being equivalent to the factory part). Again you're saying you have all this "reality", yet you're providing nothing which contradicts the facts presented above.
  13. So how often do you deal with motor insurance claims and insurance companies?
    I do this daily, all day every day.
    I see many, many unroadworthy vehicles having claims processed eventhough they are clearly unroadworthy therfore contravene local registration laws.
    The one and only claim I have been involved in which was denied, was due to the driver.
  14. So you've seen people getting away with failing to disclose information to an insurer. I lived next door to someone who drove an unregistered car every day for five years without ever being booked.

    Doesn't prove it's legal, or that there's no possibility you might get caught out some day.
  15. Yeah I was, sorry I haven't heard back yet.
  16. #16 Caz no 2, Nov 26, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
    My experience

    Vic Roads advised me that I cannot remove the LAMS off my rego so bike will always be a LAMS registered bike.

    Swann insurance advised me that I am still covered if I do remove restrictors as they only see it as a minor modification.

    I am on a full license.

    Newer model Ninja 650L is actually not as easy to remove restrictor screw as were the older models. My tank and a few other parts had to be removed to be able to get it out. Plug under seat was easy though.

    Many bikes have been done at dealers and they will advise you on your invoice that it is an illegal modification. Mine was done at the mechanic I use but I can't remember what was said on invoice.

    Realistically I should have purchased a non LAMS bike but needed a bike ASAP PLUS didn't do my homework on the legalities of removing the restrictors. Should also not have listened to the salesman when he said it was easy to remove, but then later commented that their mechanics wouldn't do it for me!

    Oh also there is quite a difference in power with restrictors on from a Ninja 250 and then without the restrictors I don't feel like it is a huge difference, only more room to open her up more without the throttle screw.
  17. #17 jd, Nov 26, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
    That's fine. Like I said the final outcome isn't relevant to this discussion, was more just curiosity.
    I do miss Loz on the forums, he used to post some funny shit (though I do still read his Gizmag articles).

    I'd be making sure to get that in writing. I've had insurers tell me stuff would be fine, then flatly refuse to list it as one of the conditions of the policy.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. He's one of the few true great Aussie blokes isn't he? :)
  19. I know he's been OS. I'll try him again in the morning.
  20. That's for sure. I still have a collection of holiday photos with his arse featuring in far too many of them :LOL:.