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Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by pro-pilot, Jun 4, 2008.
'Zero tolerance' approach to nuisance bike louts
A disgusting piece of legislation.
Impossible for it to be fair and balanced to all people with bikes: those with housing have everything to lose and those without housing, or housing that isn't in their name have nothing to lose.
Never mind whether or not it's possible for this to be fair and balanced to all people with bikes. How about the fact that someone could potentially lose their home for doing nothing more than riding a motorbike?
The report states that the police and Carlisle Housing Association are "promising a "zero tolerance" approach to riders who bother residents." How do you know if a rider is bothering a resident? That's easy - "Let me assure people that all contact with the police and CHA is completely anonymous and by providing us with your name and contact details we can inform you when action against individuals has been taken."
That's right, Mr & Mrs Bike-Hater - you can anonymously report bikers in your area just for annoying you. Never mind whether they actually do anything illegal - they're having more fun than you and must be punished for it. Your complaint might not result in anything more than the police bothering some wholly innocent biker who just happened to ride past your house (rather than spending time catching people who are doing actual illegal things), but isn't it nice to know that there's a chance they could be evicted?
So you could lose your home because some stupid old biddy who doesn't have the good grace to die already thinks you rolling up the street in 2nd with a loud pipe thinks you're a hoon? Marvellous.
And I imagine this is probably another case of the coppers and a local government trying to act tough, when they probably don't have anywhere near the legal authority to do anything.
El Damo, I am opposed to the government giving itself the power to confiscate ANY legally aquired asset owned by a member of the public.
Cars, bikes, houses - whatever: if it's mine, it should stay mine; and I'd rather crash it than hand it over permanently to the evil overlords.
Can you not predict some wicked standoffs if they tried to enforce this crap?
I bet the first bloke they try to take housing off barricades himself inside with his family and a knife.
Something tells me we're not getting the full story in this report.
For a start, it doesn't say in exactly which way the rider's are "illegal". If I was to make it a guess, I would say probably people riding trail bikes in prohibited areas (which in Britain now is nearly everywhere). Secondly, I suspect that what they are really threatening is legal action to recover penalty revenue, with a worst-case scenario of forced sale of assets for non-payers. I seriously doubt that a police force in the UK has the power to seize and keep real-estate over what is really a misdemeanor. :?:
I think it is bluster by yet another power-crazed bureaucrat with delusions of grandeur.
Having said that, it is well known that the head of police in North Wales (ie. not Carlisle) has a pathological hatred of motorcyclists and has been the subject of a concerted campaign by M/C groups to have him removed from office, due to his attempts to rid his area of all riders by any means (legitimate or not).
Conveniently leaving facts out again I see PP :roll:
So they're not taking houses from people riding legally - but evicting tenants from council property for illegally riding unregistered dirtbikes on the propety. Which is exactly what they would do for any other illegal activity committed on the property like using/selling drugs, prostitution, etc.
You also have no idea of the some of the areas they are talking about, areas of mass entrenched unemployment where few people have licences, insurance or tax, drive unregistered cars, commit other criminal offences and generally have little to no respect for the law.
There are council housing estates that are the size of medium sized suburbs with huge social problems. Until the seizure laws came into effect, the police were powerless to effect any form of penalty on offenders. Carrying a licence in the UK is not a legal requirement and a 'provider' was often the worst a copper could do. Come up with a convincing story about who you were, provide a false name and details and then continue going on your merry way.
Before any of you start commenting on how unfair these laws are, you really need to understand the climate that they're being proposed in.
In that context the laws are fair.
In fact the DHS has similar powers here already.
so if u have a trck bike and a registered road one..
you loose your home?
Oh FFS Can people read
"We will continue to take action against those who believe this sort of behaviour is acceptable and may pursue the repossession of homes as part of a raft of measures." .
There is no legislation involved, it is the â€œHousing Associationâ€ saying they will pursue. That doesnâ€™t actually mean they will win. It could get thrown out of court. Basically it is an organisation blowing hot air, not a government legislating anything
As noted by titus, jd and cejay, there is an awful lot of context and detail missing from this news story. This is not a move to allow busybodies to dob in legitimate bikers. It is a move to give the authorities some effective sanction against people who would make our own troublesome minorities look like the local boy scouts.
If you haven't experienced some of the rougher areas of the UK first hand, you have no idea of the issues this involves. It has nothing to do with the demonisation of motorcyclists as such.
ah ok, understandable.
Tramp can confirm this but I believe you cant be hung, drawn and quartered in a court without evidence.
An anonymous tip off isn't evidence so the person complaining MUST appear to give evidence.
Unless of course the person was silly enough to repeat the offence in front of the Police.
The Dob in a Hoon lines are intelligance gathering lines only, they cant charge someone without a signed statement or evidence.
Exactly. Well, sorta.
With the dob in a hoon/litterbug/Netrider things getting around the public can lodge a complaint. But the police then have to act. From that point in they need to observe you breaking the law in the same way as they catch you speeding, drink driving or whatever.
Pretty much sums it up.
Sounds like it is similar to the EPA "dob in a rubbish dumper" lines operation.
If you admit the offence, then its cut and dried, you pay. (No body would do that here I imagine).
If you challenge it, the evidence must then be tested in court.
The evidence of the caller may / may not be enough. In some cases as noted, the police would be required to observe the behaviour.