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Two US cities have banned red-light cameras

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by DisgruntledDog, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Two US cities have banned red-light cameras amid claims they are merely revenue raisers.

    I noted these two paragraphs. NSW, welcome to Victoria!



     
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  2. It gives me the shits when one state uses another state's failed foray into a technology as an example as to why they should be doing it, too.

    NSW is second only to the ACT when it comes to road fatalities adjusted by population and # of cars:-

    pRTJr.

    The argument that Victoria is doing "a better job" is obviously bunk.
     
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  3. Whilst I dislike the use of speed cameras for revenue raising, I find it hard to argue against red light cameras. Does anyone here really want to argue that running red lights is a safe and acceptable practice?

    Arguments that you may need to do it to avoid being rear ended will not be accepted. That is a rare and exceptional occurence and does not excuse the behaviour of the general populace for whom the first 10 seconds of a red seem to be advisory only.
     
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  4. +1.

    don't have a problem with Red Light cameras.

    Speed Cameras on the other hand ..............
     
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  5. I don't have a problem with red light cameras. I have a problem with yellow lights being shortened so that the cameras make more money. I also have a problem with the cameras not being VIDEO cameras so that they show the circumstances instead of just a moment in time. There's no reason they couldn't do a continuous record and save the preceding and following 10 seconds for each alleged infraction, with a camera facing the way the vehicle came from as well.
     
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  6. Intersection crashes related to not observing red lights accounts for approximately 1% of crashes, according to RTA stats. Yet huge budgets go towards red light cameras because they do make alot of money. The positives are people are encouraged to obey the law and stop as directed.

    The negative is that people know there is so little tolerance or consideration in the appeal process, leading to people ebraking to stop in time, which can easily cause accidents. Although the same can be said for speed cameras - the next time you're going past a speed camera look at the ground and you'll notice tyre marks as people smash the brakes suddenly upon noticing the camera.

    That said, red light cameras are an endangered species in NSW. They are slowly being phased out and replaced with safety cameras that are both speed and red light in one.
     
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  7. Please cite examples where this has been done. It's certainly not been the case in WA on any of the many camera'd junctions I pass through every day.

    I agree that this would be a better system (although quite how it gels with your views on surveillance of the public beats me :wink:). However, how often is it really necessary to run a red (to the extent a camera will get you) as a mean of evasive action? In 21 years on bikes, and 25 on the road, I've been in a situation where it might have been justified once, and even then had an alternative, which I used. I doubt if there are that many miscarriages of justice as a result of the limitations of our cameras. Frankly, in a situation that desperate, I'd consider three points and $150 to be small beer.

    Given the very casual attitude of Perth drivers to traffic lights, I'm more than happy to see a few of them suffer some financial and licence pain for it. I see at least half a dozen instances of serious red running every single day. By serious, I don't mean slicing the amber a bit late, but crossing the line an appreciable number of seconds after the red has lit. The sort of thing that could easily result in someone on a green being cleaned up, like, for instance, a motorcyclist getting ahead of traffic. I think it's significant that an awfully high percentage of serious injury accidents, in WA at least, are high speed T-bones at controlled junctions.
     
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  8. Not problem with red light camera's either, speed camera's well........

    I find the "victoria successful in reducing road toll" eh?? an interesting comment.
     
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  9. I don't think it's being done here, thankfully.

    http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

    Oh it's not common, by any stretch. THe video camera thing definitely doesn't appeal to me, but if we're gonna have RLCs, I think that'd be a better way to do it, especially if the video automatically is overwritten unless archived as evidence.

    Frankly, my most common reason for HYPOTHETICALLY violating red lights is after sitting at one for five minutes when the sensor doesn't pick up my bike.
     
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  10. I'm astonished that it's so low in NSW. It's a hell of a lot higher here, given that the vast majority of WA accident blackspots are light controlled junctions where the only way to have a crash is to run a red.

    Yeah, PITA when that happens. The sensors in Perth aren't too bad and there are a few tricks that can be employed. Junctions with a row of diamonds and a bicycle symbol painted on the roads should be able to pick up a bicycle over the diamonds, so a bike should trigger it. Rolling backwards a car length will put you over the sensors that detect whether a queue has built up which can make a difference. Switching off and then restarting can create enough electromagnetic noise from the starter motor for the induction loops to pick up. One technique I used to have to adopt in the UK but haven't needed here is to get off the bike and go and press the pedestrian crossing buttons for the opposing routes, then sprint back to the bike and get rolling before the light goes red again. S'all fun.
     
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  11. I'm astonished that it's so low in NSW. It's a hell of a lot higher here, given that the vast majority of WA accident blackspots are light controlled junctions where the only way to have a crash is to run a red.

    I'd rather see better education and enforcement around braking distances, safe following distances and reading the road ahead. Anyone being caught out by someone braking for something as predictable as a red or even an amber is highly likely to shunt you if you need to e-brake for any one of a myriad other reasons. I'm not sure if I want their deficiencies disguised by removing a means of nailing red light runners.

    Yeah, PITA when that happens. The sensors in Perth aren't too bad and there are a few tricks that can be employed. Junctions with a row of diamonds and a bicycle symbol painted on the roads should be able to pick up a bicycle over the diamonds, so a bike should trigger it. Rolling backwards a car length will put you over the sensors that detect whether a queue has built up which can make a difference. Switching off and then restarting can create enough electromagnetic noise from the starter motor for the induction loops to pick up. One technique I used to have to adopt in the UK but haven't needed here is to get off the bike and go and press the pedestrian crossing buttons for the opposing routes, then sprint back to the bike and get rolling before the light goes red again. S'all fun.
     
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  12. There was a high profile case in Melbourne of a right turn arrow that was set to change so fast that hundreds of locals were booked turning against the red light. Most of those caught were older people with excellent driving records.

    The authorities denied there was any problem at all for months and months. The oldies got together and started a class action against the fines, after getting on ACA and generally publicising the issue.

    The authorities finally admitted there was an issue after the oldies used an expert to monitor the intersection, and proved that it changed from red to green to yell.. to red too fast. The case never went to court.

    Of course in that case the time the light was yellow wasn't reduced, it was just set too fast when the new light was installed. The unacceptable behaviour was the denial by authorities, as they kept pumping out $200 ( or something like that) fines.

    All the above is from memory. I'll let you research it. :D
     
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  13. The issue I have with cameras at intersections is that they make people paranoid, so that instead of accelerating a tad to get through an amber light comfortably, people slam on the brake for fear of getting done by the cameras. I've no real problem with 'red light' cameras as you have to seriously misjudge the lights to worry about them. But speed cameras are at intersections are a terrible idea.

    It's just unsafe.

    It's the same thing as people constantly taking their eyes off the road to check their speed these days - it doesn't encourage safety at all.
     
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  14. I can't be arsed, so I'll take your word for it. Most of the cameras here won't actually nail right turners anyway, as long as the straight ahead light is green.
     
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  15. Great idea, that way you hit the idiot turning right in front of you that little bit harder. All the newer cameras in Vic also have a speed camera in them so if you go over the speed limit doing the above you'll get done for speeding as well.

    When a Red Light camera is installed they're supposed to lengthen the "Amber period".
     
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  16. Which, if it had been done in the first place, would mean that people had more time to stop when they saw a light change from green to amber, and so there would be less "red light runners", and therefore less accidents when those vehicles hit the cross traffic that accelerated hard away from the line as soon as they saw a green light. (That's us, an those dreadful cage hoons!)

    This thread is starting me to think I don't like red light cameras either.
     
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  17. My problems with red-light cams are people focus more on the lights than what is going on around them.

    I see more people now slamming on the brakes with little thought of what’s going on behind them, when in reality they had plenty of time to make the lights.
     
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  18. I dislike the new combo deals they are implementing at lights around NSW.

    whenever i go through one, im too busy checking my speedo to make sure im not speeding, so i think im going to miss the lights change and end up running a red.

    This could also result in lost seconds when the light changes, resulting in e-braking.
     
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  19. I did the look in the mirror once several years ago and decided the Kenworth behind me (in my car) needed the space I would occupy so went through the Amber only to clean up a car turning right.

    Certainly made an interesting insurance argument as the other driver and a witness (who couldn't see the traffic lights anyway) both claimed I ran a Red Light.

    Luckily the Law states vehicles turning right must give way to ALL VEHICLES so I eventually got my Excess back but still took 18 months of insurance companies arguing among themselves.

    Funny thing about the crash, my then 2yo nephew was in the back seat and I got the classic "Can we do that again" question out of him about 10 seconds after the hit.
     
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