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Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by barts, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. Hi guys,

    I haven't been on here for a while, but I have a bit of a question for you all.

    I guess I've been riding for a bit over a year now on my RS250, and recently I just realised that I don't really turn the handle bars when I turn into corners or bends.

    I do at slow speed, but even then it's only minimal - unless I was doing a U-turn or something like that.

    I guess my question is that normal?

    I know from when I first got on the site there were a few threads about pushing and pulling, etc...

    Anyway I guess I'd like to know you thoughts and see what other riders are like.

  2. Yeah this is normal, as the speed increases, the wheels create more gyro force, its like that science trick when you sit in a swivel chair and spin the bike wheel, it will make the chair spin around. What you are doing is called counter-steering, to turn left, you put pressure on the right bar, this comes naturally so while it sounds confusing, it will quickly be forgotten about. When in an emergency, you use this technique, but with a lot more force, it can actually have quite a dramatic change of direction. I try to practice emergency counter-steering at least once a week.
  3. YES
    It's called countersteering. Do a search here or google it. You will find a ton of material on this.

    EDIT: kinda shocked you were not taught this when you got your permit/licence :shock:
  4. Are you sure you have your permit?
  5. I understand counter steering but that was consciously pushing in the opposite direction to swerve or whatever, and hard as it might seem I'm not completely retarded, just a bit.


    At the risk of more ridicule I'm going to try and rephrase my question and explain myself better because I want to understand what I'm doing and be a better rider.

    What I mean is if I go around a bend, I lean into it rather than steer or counter steer with the handle bars - so I'm not putting any consciously pressure one way or the other on the bars, but using more my weight to turn.

    I probably still haven't explained myself, or have and I don't realise it and still look like an idiot, but I know that I feel a difference when I consciously put pressure on the bars to when I don't, and most of the time I seem not to.

    Thanks again in advance.
  6. Umm perhaps you can scan and show your learners/permits while your thinking about it.

    Cuz as VCM says this is something explained when you get your permit.

    Or are you just post whoring? :grin: cuz thats ok i do it too.
  7. I think I understand what you're getting at..

    When you're doing slow speeds, you turn the bars mayby 45deg off centre, but when you're moving along faster you only turn the bars maybe 3-4deg off centre?

    If that's what you're getting at, it's normal:


    The bars are turned bugger all off-centre, but it's still turning.
  8. Once you're in the turn (leant over) you're not steering with the front as you would in a car, you're turning based on the decreasing size of your tire toward the inside (I can't for the life of me think of the correct name for this).

    Simple example, with enough grip, you can roll the throttle on, lift the front wheel, and continue happily around the corner.

    You DO countersteer to tip the bike over. You absolutely must be doing it. Even if you think you don't, you are.
  9. You statement above could confuse a lot of new riders. Just to clarify this, push on the left bar to go left, push on the right bar to go right. Of course if you pull on the right bar, then you will go left too.

    Stay safe.
  10. barts As every one has said it's counter stearing blah blah blah... How does this help you?
    Get out in an empty carpark, and play a little. Set up a streight line and do some concios counter stearing. get the feel for how the bike moves.
    Start gentle and work your way up, untill you are slaloming along having a ball.
    Before you do it, though make sure there arn't any gravel or oil patches to bring you unstuck.
    Also consider getting Twist of the Wrist by Kieth Code. or some other similar techniques book. this one is about racing, but the Vehicle dynamics still apply when you are not on the track.
  11. Try not to over analyse it
  12. No need to be embarrassed mate...ALOT of riders do not fully appreciate what counter-steering is all about.
    But there are enough threads on here that you should be able study up on it.
    You HAVE to use counter-steering to start your turn. After that you might make small adjustments with your counter-steering to hold a line etc, but once you are in the turn, indeed it is the lean of the bike and your body etc that holds it there. However, to change that lean, you will be counter-steering whether you realize it or not - it only takes a little bit.

    Turns at speed feel different to car park speeds at 10-15k's upwards due to the difference in handlebar (clip-on) movement, but it is still counter-steering.

    Push left to go left, Push right to go right.
  13. Thanks guys - yeah Macca I think we're on the same page.

    Thanks Falcon for the book - I'll see if amazon has something available?

    It's hard because I didn't grow up with bike, and none of my mates ride, so asking stupid questions, even if sometimes they go back to the very very start, on here is the only way I can learn.

    So again I appreciate the feedback, cheers for the help.

  14. Your probably doing it unawares.
  15. It's better to ask a stupid question and get it right than to do something stupid because you never asked.
    It bloody well hurts less.