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Turning in too early

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Ljiljan, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. An issue that is affecting my riding is that I turn in too early. I noticed it today particularly when I was turning in quickly. I would apex way to early and have to adjust my line.

    My issue seems to stem from looking through the corner. I try and look as far through the corner as possible before entering but find that in doing this I drift in towards the inside line as you do when looking that way. How would I be preventing this? I dont want to be staring at the entry of the corner to stay out wide as that would leave me unprepared for the corner.

  2. Don't target lock until exit mate. When you 'know' you're on the right line then lock.

    Practice with slower entry speeds and deeper turn ins.

    Practice riding closer to the outside edge in non-commitment situations to dial in your visual cues and sub-conscious.

    Take your time.
  3. cheers mate.

    I hate being patient and trying to do things properly. No fun in that. By the time I'm good enough to go fast I'll be all grown up and boring.
  4. Lilley, you're not doing anything that doesn't happen to all riders at some in their development, so relax.

    You are drifting in because your brain is urging you to stay away from all the nasties byond the edge of the road.
    It's something that you need to train for as chef said. Get used to staying out wide. Then of course, I reiterate on what chef said...wait till the exit comes into view, before turning in.

    Yes, this will mean on some corners you are riding around the outside of them, while waiting for your exit to appear.
  5. raven, would you apply that to corners you know as well? ie, blind and tight, but you know where the exit is and head for it.
  6. :biker:
  7. I understand, me neither. The sweet marrow of riding is, once you've eaten all the meat off the bone there's still plenty of tasty stuff left.

    I use straight boring sections to practice riding close to the line.
    I use commuting to practice accuracy and quick turn ins.

    Early turns are a sign of too fast an entry speed. The brain believes it's about to run out of road at the exit for the speed it's carrying, so the instinctive reaction is to start the turn earlier and attempt to complete the turn earlier hopefully leaving some road at the end.

    Just as everything else about riding is counter-intuitive, early tip-ins are too.
    If you turn early, you run wide. This re-enforces the belief and compounds the problem.

    The only antidote I've found is to deliberately slow down and focus on running deep and tipping late. You'll find even after a day of running the drill your speed will have picked up. You might not notice it but your friends will.

    If you concentrate on turning instead of entry speed you'll find you'll flow better from one corner to the next, and even though it will feel slower....
  8. thanks man. Really appreciate your help.

    Funnily enough some people aren't as fortunate as others. I thought people got over the whole my dad is richer than your dad petty BS by year 5.
  9. Keep scanning until the reference points are lined up....

    Brake to
    Entry, tip to
    Apex, gas it to

    You don't know your apex until you know your exit. If you've tipped early your apex and exit has changed.

    Raven's right, hang wide until you see the exit then dive for the apex. Or you're over committed.
  10. sorry, I meant you know the corner and though it may be blind you know it's layout, camber, decreasing rad, exit etc. Do you aim for the exit if you know where it is, or always wait for it?
  11. I tend to stay on the inside of truly blind corners even when practicing lines, you never know what is coming the other way and if it is in your lane or not.
  12. do you use turn in points? ie pick a mark on the road and turn when you get to it. look through the corner a bit before you get to it and use peripheral vision.
  13. I never crack it till I see the exit,case in point,big wind day a few months back.Clear trip up the Old Rd but on the way back there is a big tree down on a blind bend heading up to the PITS.Do a search on Vanishing points,as you look through the corner you get a good idea where the apex is by either seeing the road open up or not,its an indication only,your not riding a closed section or track,ride beyond what you can see and you wont last long,hate to say it but thats how the really really fast blokes usual come a cropper
  14. On corners that I know very well, I also know my tip in point, speed range, and apex. (even though I miight not be able to actually see it.)

    So I set the speed I want, turn in when I hit my turn in point, then look up, expecting to see the apex right where it should be....make a few minor adjustments to squeeze up tight to the apex, and then punch it early as I know I can...And am now waiting for the exit to come into view, right where it should....I check my line apex to exit, and maybe adjust speed pressure on the bars, throttle harder or not quite as hard, and then run through the exit point which should line me up with my correct approach for the next corner.

    In other words....knowing the corner, I can fully commit, and check-off the reference points as I expect to see them...BIG PROBLEM if they are'nt where they are supposed to be!!...But one point automatically leads to the other...
    Turn-in Point - Apex - Exit...it unravels in front of me as I go through the corner...even if it's a blind corner.

    Of course...on blind corners one can't commit as deeply to it, just in case there's something around the corner like a broken down car etc...so I leave a little wriggle-room up my sleeve, unless I already know that the corner is clear.

    Just practice staying wide and give your judgment time to adapt. It's one of those moments where you want to keep more of a wide angle view on things, and maintain the big picture...you can get practice at looking through the corner, while "sensing" how far you are from the edge of the road, through peripheral vision.

    On roads I know, I run white line to white line - but WARNING - if you miss your turn in point while hanging out wide, then you run the risk of running too wide as you get into the corner, so your actual turn in usually has to be a quick-turn into the apex and away from that danger area your brain is trying to make you steer away from. :)

    For starters, you could use the outside wheel track as your outside line, till you get used to viewing through your wide-angle lens, then run a line between the outside wheel track and the edge or outside painted line....after that, you will be able to run the white line without a prob.

    Also note that sometimes I want to check my position prior to turn in, so I will keep my head (helmet) aimed where I am going and just fleetingly glance out of the corner of my eye to make sure I am not running off course for the outside white line, prior to tip in.

    You'll get the hang of it....it took a while for me, and even now, I can't say that I am accomplished at it, so if I'm not hitting my marks to good on a day, I will give myself a little breathing room, to reduce the pressure on myself.

    It's a good thread Lilley. You've asked a question alot of riders wonder about, but just ask about....dunno why.

    Riders have their techniques, and this is mine, which I think(?) is fairly typical..

  15. If I know the corner well enough, and have been through it heaps of times then I will use a "loose" turn in point. as a means of tracking my progress, yes. Because THAT'S when I should expect to see the apex, in most cases. :)
  16. I suppose another way to look at it , would be that is you are out wide you will be able to see the car earlier , thus react earlier. In the end we should be travelling at a speed through a corner that will allow us to adjust our line if required.
    If we enter tight on a corner we obscure the sight through the turn as well as the possibility that we ( if carrying excessive speed for our skill and the turn) can run wide on the exit.

    cheers michael
  17. OK, don't quite know what you're on about, but congrats still on the 5000 posts.
  18. Yep, agree with this. You can't do it if you're at ten tenths, but then you wouldn't be running the inside line at ten tenths either. I've found it surprisingly easy to tip in that little extra when necessary. Way easier than trying to hold the tighter line throughout.
    What's more, it give the numpty coming the other way a better chance of seeing you and adjusting their line back to their own side of the road.

    FWIW the UK police rider trainers recommend taking blind corners in the centre of your lane, to give yourself more options.
  19. I've been struggling with this for a while, and been meaning to ask the question. I just didn't know how to go articulate it. Thanks. It's one of the things that cause me trouble when trying to practice looking ahead in the corner. I find 3 issues really;
    1. when I look through the corner, I'm not checking the road surface the make sure it's safe (yes, if I've scanned the road around the corner, I should've picked up anything, BUT, if there are vehicles in the way etc then I couldn't check the spot they were on at the time)
    2. looking far ahead through the corner, I loose track of the car directly in front of me. I know its still there, but I find it VERY difficult to concentrate on the exit when I know I'm close to a vehicle.
    3. lastly it's the same as you said, people say you will ride where you are looking, but, if I look ACROSS a corner to the vanishing point, natural instinct will then take me on a path which CUTS that corner. I find it hard to maintain my position in the lane when I'm not looking where I am, but looking else where.

    I'm not suggesting that I shouldn't be looking through the corner etc, just that I have these issues. The biggest example corner for me is the Todd Rd exit from the Monash, then take the on ramp to the Tulla. Its a big loop, I take it every day (almost) and try to practice looking through the corner. I think I'm getting better at it, but still have the questions / issues listed.
  20. Blue, this is not really a good practice, mate, you are reducing your visibility of the corner, and if you make a mess of it you are going exit poorly. (dangerously)

    Not having a go at you. If your intention is ride slow enough that apexing is no necessary, then that's ok.
    But if you want to get good with the art of cornering you should at least ride the outside wheel track area, so you can come in on the apex when you spot it.

    Being caught to hot, and inside can easily turn you into a hood ornament, and I'd rather that not happen to you.