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Top Gear clip

Discussion in 'Multimedia' started by Jay77, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. #1 Jay77, Mar 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    I found this clip entertaining, thought u lot might too.
    The whole clips is ok, but the bit I wanted to show you guys starts at 7:00mins. I dont know how to edit it.

  2. #2 Ljiljan, Apr 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
  3. awesome clip, both bmw and atom are top notch! I don't mind watching the entire clip, it's quite funny.
  4. #4 NiteKreeper, Apr 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    This is very handy to know, nice one, thanks.
  5. you can add seconds as well, &t=#m##s
  6. Would it be fair to say that the biggest advantage the Atom had over the S1000RR was under brakes? Because it didn't look like the Atom was pulling that much ahead through corners (Clarkson mentions it understeers).
  7. Power to weight ratio was the same, but four patches of rubber are better than two for braking and cornering. Good race. :)
  8. 4 patches of rubber are better than 2 when you're trying to dissipate heat, so you can go very wide, and use a very soft compound, yet the actual pressure density on the contact patch is fairly low, because the contact patch is big. This does have an effect on the handling, but with care and precision in the design and building of the suspension, and the tyre, you can still get very good handling indeed. There are very strict limits about how wide you can go with a bike tyre, without messing up the handling so much that any big contact area advantage is lost due to rubbish handling.

    Under perfect conditions, a car will have little to no advantage over a bike under brakes, in a straight line. (Remember, I'm talking about an ordinary car here, not an open wheeled racing car with huge downforce.) But braking for a corner, on a track, in the hands of an expert, involves some degree of trail braking. In the hands of a super duper Valentino Rossi, a bike would still be right in the hunt on turn in, but most of us are nowhere near that good, and we all know what happens when the front locks as you're tipping into a corner, so we go a bit pussy about it - to leave a margin for error. A car does not bite you very hard if you brake a fraction too hard during turn in. It may get a partial or full lock-up on the inside front, which isn't real good for the tyre, but it doesn't fall over. As a consequence, any driver with half decent skills can push very close to the limit on turn in.

    The same situation exists, only more so, if the braking area is bumpy, or off camber, or patched, or there's a bit of gravel, or white paint, or the grip level is hard to predict.

    The kind of conditions you see on a damp / wet all asphalt rally, where other cars have dragged gravel and dirt onto the damp road, and everybody is flying on roads they don't know, and the grip levels are poor and unpredictable - are about the worst nightmare to go fast in, with a bike. In conditions like this, a car shines. On a clean, dry, smooth race track, with tyres properly warmed, and enough laps to get in the groove and know exactly what the limits are - it's a different story. On a bike, you are very much more dependent on knowing exactly how much grip you have, and will have in two seconds time. That means you just can not push as hard if you don't know.

    Car shows that do car v bike races, generally don't let the bike do heaps of warm-up laps. They generally do get a gun driver in the car, but put someone on the bike who is not trying to bust his balls to win. If they really want to stack things in favour of the car, they'd not do it from a standing start, because bikes get off the line pretty good. On the other hand, they don't usually arrange for a race between a standard road going bike, against a standard road going car, over ten laps or more. Know why? Because there are a few million dollar supercars that have carbon ceramic brakes, where the exact same brakes they use on the road would hold up to ten hot laps in the hands of Mark Webber. On most ordinary cars, or moderately quick cars, the tyres and brakes would be soup after 5 laps and the bike would be scorching off into the distance.

    (That situation would change if both the car and the bike were fitted with high temp track day pads. My point is that a bike will deal with abuse of its every-day road pads far better than a car.)

    The folklore is that cars are way better under brakes than bikes. In some ways that's true, but it's not anywhere near as cut and dried as the folklore would suggest.

    Another thing to think about - modern sports bike tyres grip pretty damn well on wet asphalt, as long as it's clean. Michelin Pilot Powers are two generations old now, and not even cutting edge any more, but they've been tested and proven at over 52 deg lean in the dry, and over 41 deg lean in the wet. That's far enough over to have your knee down. The key thing, is that the road is wet but clean of diesel, sand, paint, oil... In a straight line, a bike can accelerate and brake almost as hard in the wet is it can in the dry, and a skilled (and brave) rider can still get through corners pretty quick. You lose ground on corner entry and corner exit, and change of direction.

    By contrast, many cars lose a lot more performance on a wet road than bikes. But they don't punish small mistakes as hard.
  9. Cheers kneedragon, that's very interesting!

    For what it's worth, in part 2 of the posted video, the new Stig took the Atom V8 around the track by itself and posted a time that beats every other sports-car and super-car they've tested by more than a second. Assuming the S1000RR by itself would be within a second of the Atom V8, I'd call that a win for BMW and motorcycling.
  10. It does and quite badly if my information serves me correctly. There is a research topic at UNSW looking into it.