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To knee, or not to knee:that is the question;

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by bangalla, May 19, 2007.

  1. Whether 'tis nobler as a rider to hang
    The inside knee t'wards the ground,
    Or to tuck it against the bike no matter the lean,

    So while I was out riding today I found that my inside knee was dropping away from the bike when I was in faster corners, is this good, bad or indifferent? :?

    It wasn't a conscious action, just something I noticed I was doing occasionally. Is this okay or not? I'd rather not pick up bad habits early on.

  2. Yeah lately my legs been wandering down there when cornering and I've been thinking about it a bit.

    I'd say it does give the bike a lower centre of gravity, which is good. But I also had flashbacks of my preL course and the instructor saying that most (if not all, apart from race bikes) are not designed to work with the knee down, and that lightly clenching the tank actually gives more control.

    Perhaps someone who understands that crazy thing called physics could explain whats the go.
  3. No where near kneeing yet. First I want to get leather pants. Not willing to knee with draggins.

    Second, I will probably try and do it on a track day. The normal roads are not race tracks to me. If I can knee one day, I know my ego is grow by a factor of ????, but it does not mean my skill level will match my ego.
  4. ah i personally think the instructors might be dribbling sh!t now when it comes to hanging the knee out, not trying to get it down just out abit, i never got the story phizog got, what i was told is that it is a method of braking by creating wind drag, only effective over 200km/h

    so different stories from different instructors makes me think its all codswollop

    as to whether its good or not i dont know, i have a tendency to do it at times, not trying to get it down, just feels more comfortable when tipping in
  5. That's exactly what I was doing, not pushing my knee out just letting it hang when I was in a tight turn. I guess I was also moving over in the seat, so I'm not sure if I even could have held my leg to the tank? This is certainly one of those times when it'd be great to have a buddy following along watching you.
  6. yeah well its the same with me, yeah if your off the seat abit, so a s to keep the bike more upright, i dont think you can hold on to the tank with your knee
  7. I'm here, i'm here...

    Knees alone out will do little for the centre of mass (gravity if you want to call it that) of the entire bike/rider system. You're talking a tiny amount of mass a tiny bit out. No big change to it.

    However, I'd say racers will put the knee out because they're sliding their entire bum off the seat and it helps them move their mass as much across as possible, while still having some stability; they wouldn't be able to do this without putting the knee out.

    For normal road use however, it's recommended to keep your ass firmly on the seat, legs against the tank and lean in with your torso. You don't want to push your bike to the limits of its grip while on the road as there are too many uncertainties, a little bit of oil, gravel or a car in your line would ruin your day (as a combination did for me once, car in my line, i move out and hit a patch of gravel and sliiiiidddddeeeeee down the road, and that wasn't near the extremes of my grip)
  8. well actually the instructors recommend you move off the seat abit, as it changes the CoG, and allows you to put the bike through tighter bends with out having to tip the bike in as far, thus improving the contact patch of your tyres, so they end up contradicting themselves saying not to put the knee out
  9. i would be far more impressed if you got your head down, and lived ;)

    knee down is a "yeah, i got my knee down - check my knee sliders!1!" brag thing on the street.
    once you have done it, the novelty is already gone....but then there is a select few that try to carry it on, kinda like reggae :LOL:
  10. I got both my knees down at Mt White twisties come to think of it i got my whole body down... did i mention it was in a crash :) does that count :)
  11. ^^

  12. Hmmm, I think I may have been a little unclear. I wasn't trying to get my knees on the ground, and to be honest on the 250 cruiser I ride I doubt I could do so without the wheels pointing away from the road.

    What I was doing in the turns was shifting my weight (bum) across the seat and while doing so I noticed my knee would drop away from the tank. It wasn't a conscious thing, either the knee or the bum slide, it's just something that I noticed today that I was doing. My question is whether this (moving bum and knee) is good thing or not?
  13. It's a good thing. By sliding your bum off the seat a bit, you're moving your centre of gravity into the turn, thus lowering it. The knee coming away from the tank is normal and is not a problem as it's your outside knee that should be gripping the tank. :)

    If you slid your bum over and tried to hold your inside knee to the tank, it would twist your body away from the turn. That twisting would be very bad posture and counter act the balance you achieve by hanging off a bit. It would also make it difficult to look through the turn. Let the knee drop mate, it's fine. :)
  14. yeah, i was just on a beer fuelled knee-down-doesnt-make-you-cool rant.

    sorry dood, my bad :oops:
  15. Joel, you should never apologise for a beer fueled rant. :)

    Just imagine if everyone started doing that. :shock: Apologies left, right and centre would cause just about any beer fueled rant to lose credibility based on the retractions made by those who'd done it before. :shock: Chaos would reign as sober people began to creep from thier holes, no longer fearful of rebuttal from a drunkard holding a Buzz Lightyear action figure. :shock: What kind of sad world would that be? :(

  16. hang on your shift yoyr ass off the seat on a cruiser now thats a whole new kettle of fish :LOL: they're not meant to be riden like that, get a little sports bike :rofl:
  17. Not a worry at all, I reread my original post and realised that it could do with some clarification. I was far too interested in my own imagined cleverness at paraphrasing Shakespeare to pay attention to important stuff like information regarding the question I was asking.

    :grin: Well the bike isn't mine, it's my father in law's. I'm just riding it while I'm on my Ls as I go straight to an unrestricted license, I see a sports bike in my future. Hopefully after man-handling this little thing through the bends a sporty will seem fairly easy.
  18. Far better to focus on getting your inside elbow down and low. From that simple application of body positioning, almost all else just follows naturally.
  19. There is a great video on youtube from MCN (motorcycle news) about getting the knee out.
    the instructor goes to great pains to state that getting your upper torso over the centreline and to the inside has a greater effect than trying to scrape your knee. The knee thing just happens if you get your head and shoulders inside the corner - naturally.

    At work, so can't get access to youtube for link, but is 5 minutes worth watching.
  20. #20 bangalla, May 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    I found the vid [media=youtube]QCg3BMGe52M[/media]

    Well worth the look. What he said about getting your head down is precisely what I found myself doing so that I'd get the best view of where I wanted to corner.

    The more I read and ride the more I realise that the 'right' way to do things is also the most natural, which of course explains why really good riders make everything seem so easy.