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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by arsenalroc, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Calling all political buffs i need some help!

    Can somebody tell me why Tibet is fighting with China? From what i have read it seems that Tibet had been a party of China wayy before any modern western countries existed.

    No doubt there are human rights issues in China but if a state in Australia, USA or English tried to break off they will be branded a terrorist group. I mean how come nobody support palestine when the situation is almost identical to the tibet though Palestine has a shitload more suicide bombers.

    Anybody have any thought? I am not looking for conspiracy theories or anything. just wondering if this is another case of 'Save the Kangaroos by (crazy)Californians cause of the cute factor i.e we should save them cause we like them.

  2. I don't know what happened in the truly ancient times but I do know that before Chinese invaded Tibet in the 50s it had its own government and there have been Tibetan rulers going back as far as the 7th century. And that Tibetans are apparently unhappy being considered a part of China, and that's good enough for me.

    And if the situation is somehow similar to Palestine... well, if you haven't noticed, a large number of people outside of USA do support Palestinian right to independence.
  3. I haven't read this thoroughly, but this http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/China/02/bishop/bishop.htm is a bit of a history of the situation.

    Tibet is within its rights to protest China's invasion and occupation, and is taking the opportunity to do so against the background of the West's grovelling to China about the Olympics so as not to upset billion-dollar trade deals.
  4. Tibet is in a strategic position with India and Pakistan as well hence the Chinese see this as an advantage. Easy to launch missiles from Tibet if need be.
  5. Tibet, before the Chinese invasion in the 1950's was NEVER under effective Chinese control. In fact, there was a short period in the 14th century when the Tibetans controlled most of China!
    Despite this, the Chinese have insisted since there takeover that they have a historical claim to Tibet because they say they have traditionally ruled it.

    Part of the justification for this comes from the early 20th century when the British in India chose to recognise Chinese sovereignty, when the British, under Sir Francis Younghusband, invaded Tibet. The Chinese were quite keen on this, because the British had agreed to withdraw soon afterwar, leaving the Chinese as nominal rulers (and thus help the British by keeping the Russians out).

    All this happened before the Communist revolution. but the new communist rulers seized this thinnest of excuses to justify their military seizure of Tibet, and have done so ever since.

    Since the 1950s there has been no effective Tibetan government within the country apart from the Chinese adminstration. The vast majority of ordinary Tibetans, however, have never accepted the legitimacy of Chinese rule, and at every opportunity have resisted it. The Chinese responded by transporting millions of ethic Han Chinese into the province, to literally 'outbreed' the local population.

    It's probably not accurate to compare this situation to Palestine, despite apparent similarities, because Palestine was always a mixture of ethnicities and religions, whereas Tibet had almost no Chinese present before the 50s.

    One thing that worries me about the current Western media response is that we seem to ignore the problems for other ethic minorities within the political control of the Chinese, such as the Uighurs of Xinjiang province, and several others, who have an equally strong case for self-rule, but who just don't have 'Hollywood Buddhist' celebrities pushing their cause.
  6. Not to mention generations of torture and abuse heaped on ALL religous groups who did not sign up to the Three Selfs Religious Concord......
  7. Maybe if they had cultures as rich, valuable and influential as Buddhism, and a leader as charismatic and inspiring as the Dalai Lama, they would find some celebrities to push their causes too. Of course not having them doesn't make it right for them to suffer oppression, I'm just saying, there are reasons why the cause of Tibet happens to be so popular in the West.
  8. Um I know it's sunday morning and I did have a few :beer: last night. So I may be reading your post with a muddled brain cell or two.

    But His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, is both the head of state and the spiritual leader of Tibet. He's in exile over this whole Chinese takeover stuff thats going on
  9. Yes, you are! Come back after you had a couple more, it will all make sense then :)
    mmm... beer... is it too early for a beer?
  10. This topic is something I'm pretty passionate about - so I'll try to explain as best as I can.

    As was mentioned previously, the Dalai Lama (which translates as "Ocean of Wisdom") is both the spiritual and secular head of state in Tibet. He is believed to be the reincarnation of the Buddha of compassion. Underneath the Dalai Lama is the Panchen Lama, who is responsible for finding the next Dalai Lama and is a spiritual head of state in his stead, without any political power. The Panchen Lama is currently a 15 year old boy under house arrest by the Chinese Government since the age of 7, and the Chinese-promoted panchen lama.....well I'll go into what I thik about that later..... Secualr matters are run by several ministers who are overseen by the Dalai Lama.

    During the invasion of Tibet, he Chinese government tried to force the Tibetan government to accept a "seventeen point agreement", which basically was to agree that Tibet was a part of China. When this didn't work, the Chinese invaded Tibet and the military took over.

    What has since happened is nothing short of genocide - The Tibetan people have been forced to kill animals and each other, not allowed to speak or write Tibetan, and their land and homes are given to Chinese Families. One book in particular, called "Tears of Blood" Whcih has first person accounts of nuns being gang-raped, tortures, public floggings, public executions, public humiliations....the list goes on.

    The main reason that Tibet was invaded by the Chinese in the 1950's, was that Mao Tse Tung saw Tibet as "The hand into India" - and as such knew that the Communist takeover in Tibet would facilitate an easier invasion of India and most of the East.

    The Dalai Lama believes that he will never be found again. However, there is an ancient Tibetan prophecy which stated that:
    "When the iron bird flies, and the horse runs upon rails, the Dharma will travel West to the Land of the Red Man."
  11. Yeah the Tibetans have had a rough time simply because of their location, and not just from the Chinese either