Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

This guy...

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Ljiljan, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. "Many naysayers in the automotive community criticize the Corvette's for using a "primitive" cam-in-block engine design. In fact, all but a few automakers have switched over to the so called superior overhead cam designed. However, many fail to recognize is that the cam-in-block 90 degree V8 is the engine is the most compact, simplest and lightweight engine for achieving high displacement. It is this same reason that almost all automotive gearheads make a cam in block engine their first choice for racing applications. (Nascar, NHRA, Throphy Trucks, powerboats you name it!) "
    "I love quality American made products "


     
     Top
  2. I'll always have a soft spot for those big 8s, but a Wankel Rotary is actually simpler, lighter and smaller than any in-block cam V8 for any given displacement (swept volume). It's just a pity they sound like crap. Nascar, for example, also have very strict rules governing exactly what engine and everything else the teams can use. There's no choice allowed at all.
     
     Top
  3. Problem with rotaries is they are pretty much two stroke an have 2 stoke emissions to suit. I agree though, great engines and I don't mind the sound so much.
     
     Top
  4. Forced induction is the replacement for displacement.
    I love how the 'mericans first resouce is to quote NHRA racing where the rules are strict, the cubes are massive 10+lt, and there is so much boost getting pumped in to some of the applications that they are on the edge of hydrualic lock.
    But they do have thier place in the market, Yanks love them. Aussie refer to the LS series, 'Chinese Chevs'. I'd still have a rota any day over a V8 toy car.

    In saying that, it was a pretty insane feeling being at an NHRA drag meet in Northern California last year. The atmosphere is insane, the quality and everything about it, the Yanks know how to do it. Oh and watching a record 4 second pass was pretty cool to.
     
     Top
  5. Reference to Nascar is similarly comic.
    Short track?
     
     Top
  6. 1000 foot for top fuelers, still watched a new record run
    I believe everything else runs the full quater mile and watch another record or two tumble with the bikes racing.
     
     Top
  7. Yeh, forgot that Americans like to round down their times. Stupid really.
     
     Top
  8. Thing is he's actually right in some respects. I actually hate Chevy, but I have to admit that their LS# engines provides probably the most compact and light weight streetable 300kW.

    Turbo I hear you say. Well not really. You have to wind up a sr20 to get 300kw and at that point it's neither streetable nor reliable

    6 cylinder turbo? Well they actually weigh more than the LS# engines by the time you add turbo, intercooler, etc. And it still isn't that streetable

    The reason is big capacity v8s don't need to rev above about 5000rpm on the street. OHC only comes into play when revving above that.

    As for DOHC for street purposes, who adjusts their exhaust and inlet cams separately anyway? O who revs above 8000rpm on the street?

    He is of course just dumb when it comes to his racing comments. They use OHV engines in most of those classes because they are required too.
     
     Top
  9. If I were to build a big block eight I wouldn't be picking one based on size or weight. My criteria would be the ability to hold a solid boost at ALL revs without crapping a piston out the sump. In case I'm not clear, I like blowers ie SUPERchargers ... roots or screw blowers. Why? I hate lag. I know a blower takes power to spin and a turbo is "free" power but I HATE lag ... I hate it when I play online games and I hate it when I snap open the throttle. I want GRUNT from off idle to max revs with no lag and the erotic sound of that Gilmer drive and lumpy idle from the streetable but still a little anti-social cam.

    I also grew up watching Mad Max ... that might be related.
     
     Top
  10. They did it for safety, not to look good. With reducing the distance for the big guns, they have apparently had far less incidents. It's pretty amazing whatching a top fueler run a sub 4 second pass even over 1000 feet.
    iirc, we saw the fastest Harley pass over the full quater, was a low six seconds.

    But I digress.
    There is now doubt the single cam engine does the job, but I like techy stuff.
    No need to dial in multi cam engine, they do it themselves.

    As a comparison, a tuned LS5.7 or 6lt which remains unopened will start to get closeish to 300rwkw. Fords new miami, un opened, tuned, air fliter and stock exhaust will make in the region of 380rwkw.
    Sure, you'll argue it's blown, yes it is but it's all OEM. A mate with an LS commo has done a full top end plus blower etc for the same power output.
     
     Top
  11. #11 Ljiljan, Feb 8, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
    Yeh, I am aware of that. Hence a 4sec pass I'm guessing would be the full quarter. Comment was with regard to fact that they consider 4.8 to be 4 seconds, when the really should round up to 5.

    Speaking of streetable power, guy built a 700hp mitsu (600 with clutch completely letting go) that makes full boost (47psi) from bout 4k or so and far exceeds the flow capabilities of his turbo at around 75lbs/min. Thanks for putting me onto that cazzo.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/378908-compound-turbo-dyno-results.html

    However, I have to say I'm in awe of those that go about getting the power that corvettes and vipers should have made with the displacement given - I'm talking 1200, 1300hp+.
     
     Top
  12. Um, guessing you haven't been too involved in drag racing? Nothing gets rounded unless it's a wannabe. I think we saw a 3.9 second 1000' pas which would probably equate to a low 4 second pass.
     
     Top
  13. 4 second pass, 6 second pass, 9 second pass whatever - unless it's spot on the point, it's rounding. Reality is that if you pass the traps at 6.xx second, it's a 7 second pass as you are into the 7th second.
     
     Top
  14. Ok. Do me a favour, go to WSID one night and make an announcement to that effect...make sure someone is videoing it.
     
     Top
  15. Again, I'm not interested in peoples self delusion, I prefer to deal with reality. If someone wishes to believe they went down the strip in 10s when they clearly didn't, that's their prerogative. Maybe it is the forte of wannabees...
    Out of curiosity, how many zero second 60ft times have there been?
     
     Top
  16. Well you see, most people do more than one pass. So if they are consistently running in the say 10 second bracket, there is every reason in the world to say you run 10's. So no self delusion, just cold hard reality as you like it.

    I know where you're going with that so don't bother trying...
     
     Top
  17. nice strawman
     
     Top
  18. Are you deliberately missing that this is just the convention in the drag racing world? Given that everybody who cares about quarter mile times understands "running 12's" to mean "12 seconds and a bit", there's no delusion involved and everybody understands each other perfectly. It may be a ridiculous convention but it's a ridiculous activity to start with, so somehow it all makes sense ;)
     
     Top
  19. #19 Ljiljan, Feb 8, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
    No. And I don't really think it's such a stupid activity either - no more stupid than tractor pulling or worlds strongest man. It's given us the fastest accelerating machine and that's impressive whichever way you look at it.
     
     Top
  20. I was with you all the way until this bit... You obviously haven't tried it too often?
     
     Top