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"There will not be a carbon tax under my Government"

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Dazzler, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Well done numpty Australia, you trusted Gillard at her word, well you've just been f@#$ed by her and her Government, congratulations.](*,)

  2. So I am going to be taxed for simply being alive
  3. What are you referring to mate?
  4. I think you fail to realise that abbot still intended to put market controls on carbon emissions. Whether by tax or other means, we still pay around the same. Yes, we trusted gillard by her word. But we trusted abbot IN WRITING... that went well, no?
    Superiour broadband is worth a carbon tax IMHO
  5. This has NOTHING to do with motorcycle politics and legalities "Legal, and/or political aspects of riding."
    It has been moved to a more appropriate forum but please next time it gets moved to holding.
  6. I will never get my head around carbon credits and carbon trading and carbon tax, to me it's a scam for more revenue raising.
  7. Ah yes, issues of trust.

    Welsh Rabbitt anyone?
  8. Sorry Smee, my screw up. I'll try not to make the mistake again.
    Thanks for moving it to the appropriate forum.
  9. There is no incentive at the moment for operators to make their plants more efficient because coal is so cheap.

    All of the coal fired station around Australia are sitting on projects waiting for a decision on this. Meanwhile maintenance and efficiencies are dropping.

    It's got to happen.
  10. I admit I've been preoccupied with other stuff lately, but when did the Labor Party say they would never have an ETS or carbon tax? I musta missed that, somewhere. I thought they shelved it until they could get it through later on (ie. after the election)?
  11. I think Julia did take a position during the campaign, but word is the greens made it a condition of support after the election.

    The stupidity here is that Abbotts proposal is an incentive scheme that is funded by taxes raised elsewhere.

    So either way we are going to be taxed, it's just that one has a direct economic impact, the other is hidden.

    I personally preferred the ETS as with correctly set limits it would have been possible to get efficiencies without constant economic burden. Only the up front cost of making plants comply would have been born. With a carbon tax the cost burden is constant.

    I suppose the advantage of the latter is that plant will continue to be rewarded for further improvements.

  12. not a scam - it is an economic instrument by which behaviours are modified.

    If it becomes expensive to pollute, people will innovate to find ways to do it cleaner and therefore cheaper.

    Not rocket science. Not a revenue raising scam. Just economics in action. To date there has been no allocation of the cost imposed on every single person on the planet by polluting industries. Carbon trading and / or tax are an attempt to do that.

    Personally I prefer the idea of carbon trading to carbon tax. A tax is just an extra cost which can be passed onto consumers by unscrupulous business. But carbon credits to be traded on the open market invite more scope for innovation through profit seeking by innovators (who are seeking the money generated by creating carbon credits). A tax will not be as condusive to innovation IMHO, as it will be an in-house accounting measure dealt with by other means.

    Was always shelved, never cancelled. Shelved because Turnbull got the arse when he suggested signing up to something for the good of the country (as opposed to the good of the party) and when abbott (or "Dr No") took the wheel, nothing good got through.

    We're pulling our puds if we think this is not going to happen. Jeez - with the dark-ages reactions to NBN and carbon trading anyone would think we're an irrelevant myopic backwater with no vision for the future.
  13. I'm in favour of a Carbon Tax. It's transparent. If you pollute you pay. It's simple.

    The tax can and should be income neutral. The money raised can go back to the people and/or used to fund alternatives.

    An ETS as far as I can see is a great way for people who trade Carbon Credits to reach in to your pocket and take your money.
  14. IMO all politicians are full of shit ... the reality of it is, we need the Libs to put this country into surplus and we need labor to spend the moment ... its a cycle, always has been always will be.

    If we are not taxed for one thing, we will be taxed for another!
  15. The pollute + pay model is transparent for sure.

    But I guess the carbon credit traders reaching into POLLUTERS (not "your") pockets through carbon credit generation service provision. There might be a few dud operators, but on the whole I can see a rise in credit generation provision, which usually happens through promotion of cleaner technologies, carbon capture techniques, or carbon banking. I cant see that happening to such an extent with a tax (unless tax breaks are built in for companies which engage in carbon reducing activities).

    I actually think that in terms of encouraging innovation and cleaner technologies, an open carbon market will be more transparent.
  16. Dog, this is tooth fairy territory, how could we EVER trust a Government to give back everything they take?!?!?

    On this we agree, I too can see the potential for Carbon to become a global currency. Even with 3rd world (polluting) countries given Carbon Credits instead of the current cash handouts.
  17. IMHO a surplus is poor economic management.

    "we've collected your taxes, we can:
    a: sit on it
    b: build infrastructure for australia"

    Libs follow "a" which I disagree with. I want my tax to work for me, not sit in treasury doing nothing.

    If debt was a bad thing for personal wealth, mortgages would not exist. It is no different for a country - controlled and managed debt is not a bad thing. The "surplus = good" mentality is far too simplistic.
  18. You must agree it came in damned handy though.
  19. **** me sideways, I can hardly afford the power bill as it is.