Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

The words you never want to hear...

Discussion in 'Bling and Appearance' at netrider.net.au started by nathan2145, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. after needing to get the spark plug replaced on my bike, once the bike started the mechanic said what one can only fear the most "mate your engine sounds a bit funny"

    and with that, because a lot of noise seemed to have been coming from the engine in the mechanic's opinion, he recommended an entire engine rebuild quoting $2000-$2500, as he reckons the last owner might have ran it without proper lubrication or water could of got in the engine, which has caused shrapnel to become loose within the chamber, recommending not to even ride the bike as it could sieze.

    thats a big call to make by just listening to it, and it seems so expensive considering i thought 2 stroke engines were easy to work on. another friend who has only ever owned 2 strokes, was a bit thrown off but didn't totally want to refute a qualified mechanic's opinion, had a listen to the engine and reckons it could be other factors that could have caused it, saying its not really that bad, as 2 strokes are usually loud.

    we're goin to drain the oil tommorrow and see what comes through, but can anyone recommend any shops that might be able to offer a unique opinion on the 2 stroke aprillia's?, has anyone else have similiar issues and what did they do or any other options that might be available to me?preety devo bout all this and just really hoping this won't cost me and arm and a leg to get back on the road.


     
     Top
  2. Get a few opinions at some reputable places.
    2k sounds over the top for a smoker.
     
     Top
  3. I'd find another mechanic if I were you. Or become one myself, given that stroker singles are about the simplest engines to strip and rebuild.

    I'd just ride the thing until it went bang (if it ever did). On a sporting stroker you should be in the habit of keeping a couple of fingers on the clutch lever anyway, so a seizure won't be a disaster, and even a completely grenaded engine should cost you a lot less than $2.5k to replace or fix.
     
     Top
  4. Bam. +1

    I'd strip and rebuild myself, then see how it goes (if there even is a problem).
     
     Top
  5. Draining the oil will only give you an indication of the condition of the TRANSMISSION as the engine is separate.

    Remove the fairings and start the bike up cold and have a listen.
    Put the tip of a screwdriver on the cylinder and your ear on the end of the handle.
    Can you hear any rattling through the screwdriver? (Piston slap = skirt/bore wear)
    Move the tip of the screwdriver to different parts of the engine.
    At the base of the cylinder where it meets the crankcase you shouldn't hear any rumbling or grumbling. (= main bearing wear.)

    2K is an out of control quote. Does the bike start and run well? Hot and cold? Still provide acceptable performance? Yes?

    Then there can't be two grand wrong with it then can there.
     
     Top
  6. yea 2k sounded a bit much considering 2 storkes were fairly simple to maintain.

    but yea MalTravieso, the bike starts fine now warms up as per usual, (is a bit harder starting cold, but think got to adjust the choke a little more) and we rode it around the other day, with my mate who's fairly good with 2 strokes reckons it could be a bit louder then usual but wasn't sure as he was not totally familiar with the aprilia's.

    but we'll try the screwdriver trick and see how we go. just makes it so confusing when the bike runs and goes, but also needs a new $2.5K engine.

    but does anyone know or can recommend someone who may be able to do a cheaper rebuild if required?

    cheers for your help guys, really wanna figure this one out
     
     Top
  7. Hmmm, I dunno about that, with four strokes anyway.
     
     Top
  8. Easiest fix would be to get a new piston and ring set, as well as a small-end bearing and associated gaskets for the rebuild. That should take care of most any problems you'd have with a worn set.

    Out of curiosity, what milage has your bike done? Mine just got its second top-end rebuild at 25,000km and is running brilliantly. My thread in Modifications & Projects has a basic pictorial of the rebuild if you're interested. The last owner said it'd been rebuilt only once previously at 12.5k, and that seems on the money for rebuild intervals.

    If yours is approaching that kind of interval then its most likely rebuild time. It'll only cost around $150 if you do it yourself, and its not a particularly hard thing to do.

    Cheers - boingk
     
     Top
  9. well thats why its kind of doing my head in a bit. its only done 8k and its an 04 model, hardly ridden. only because the mechanic was saying the racers are breaking away and shrapnel is damaging the the engine, he is recommending the bottom end and top end rebuild to start fresh so there is no risk of further damage.

    but for someone just starting out riding, and already spending all sorts of money on gear and getting on the road, an unexpected $2.5K quote is preety shit.
     
     Top
  10. Yeah but he is talking about a 2 stroke, isn't he!

    The mechanic was saying the bearing races (not racers) were worn and breaking up, putting bits of loose metal into the engine. If this is so, you should be able to find the bits of metal in the oil. Use a magnet to find them in the oil, once you have drained it. Yes, top and bottom end bearings will still drop bits into the crankcase oil, even though the cylinder is separately oiled via the fuel supply.

    While it could cost $2,500 in labour and materials to do a complete rebuild at $100 per hour, it shouldn't cost that much. Parts should cost less than $900 and it should take less than two days (16 hours).

    The engine shouldn't need a rebuild yet either, unless the previous owner didn't top up the oils. A brand new replacement engine may not cost much more. You should check that out, for comparison.

    Sorry I can't help with an alternate recommended mechanic.
     
     Top
  11. FOR GODS SAKE people. It's a 2-STROKE.

    THERE IS NO CRANKCASE OIL. THERE IS ONLY TRANSMISSION OIL.

    The upper cylinder, crankshaft and crankcase (aka. ENGINE) are lubricated with 2-stroke oil which mixes with the petrol and BURNS AWAY.

    The SEPARATE tranmission oil is what you will drain out. It has NO CONTACT with ANY INTERNAL 2-STROKE ENGINE COMPONENTS and hence will offer NO DIAGNOSTIC CLUES.
     
     Top
  12. Seriously take it elsewhere and never take it back to this mechanic.
    He is playing you.
     
     Top
  13. we drained the transmission oil and nly found a couple of specs, but defidently not like finding gold, as when rubbing you fingers it did not feel like sandpaper or something.

    but i guess as everyone is sayin its not really indicative anyway, but found a mechanic who works on aprilia's a fair bit, so take it to him who is nearby. but im just worried riding the bike as the other mechanic said it could seize on me when i ride and can become dangerous. (not sure if he was just trying to cover himself if something happened), so guess gunna have to make a call on that.
     
     Top
  14. If the engine does seize when in gear, the rear wheel will lock up - a bit of a fright at low speed in a straight line, probably a bit of an ouch at high speed in a corner.
    If it does happen, pull the clutch lever and your wheel will turn again - hence PatB's comments about always being ready to pull the clutch.
    So a seized engine can be dangerous, the question is whether or not your engine is likely to seize.

    I'd book it in with a reputable mechanic that is experienced with your model to put your mind at ease, and ride it in the mean time.
     
     Top
  15. Roderick, you can't drain the 'crankcase oil', there is none, its a two stroke.

    If bits of bearing races are falling out they'll be making their way all through the engine and doing serious damage already. If its easy enough to pull the exhaust off, you could look in the exhaust port and check the bore for damage. If there's no bad scoring, and it starts and runs OK. I'd keep riding it until it makes more noise. At least get a second opinion. Might help to use that screwdriver trick on your bike and another one of the same type and compare the noises.
     
     Top
  16. ride her till she blows.
    then get a new engine from a wrecker
    it will be cheaper.

    and since ur going to the mechanic to get a spark plug changed i would recommend rebuilding it yourself unless u realy got the drive and time.
     
     Top
  17. yeah this.
    dude there is a spark plug spanner under your seat :p
    i have the exact same bike with same kms.
    its really not that hard to pull it apart and have a look.
    im really not that mechanically minded but it was a synch to flip fuel tank and take a l@@k.
    But definatley get a second opinon from a respectable mechanic and listen closely to your engine whilst riding.
    When you start pulling stuff off though remember where everything went.haha
    Good Luck with the job.
     
     Top
  18. If it does sieze up while your riding, for 2.5 grand, buy your self another bike, A four stroke, they last a lot longer than 12.5 ks between rebuilds.
    Cheers,
    Brian.
     
     Top
  19. finally got a seconed opinion.

    another mechanic had a listen and straight away could tell the bearings needed replacement. ballpark figure given for replacing the bearings as well as doing the top end as it was only a couple more K's b4 that needed to be done looking at 1.5K, unless he said if everythings is preety much messed up inside then looking at the 2-3K area, but opening it all up and havin a good look would indicate where the bike stands.

    still spewing needs the work done, but at least i can fall back on the fact i got it preety cheapish so really not that bad. hopefully with more experience and tinkering with the bike myself, eventually might be confident enough to do it myself. Just hope its the best case scenario and not too badly damaged inside, hanging to get out on the roads for some good rides in summer.
     
     Top
  20. Yep, Open her up mate. Thats the best idea.
    If there is nothing wrong with her ( apart from bearings and top end) she should be sweet for summer. If not, and she needs 2-3k spent on her id be inclined to sell her cheap.(1-2k) and spend the extra 2-3k on another bike, a newish 4T and just get some miles under your belt.
     
     Top