Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

the "VIEW" theory

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by raven, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. The "View" - and cornering

    I've been pondering this for a while now, based on my own experiences, and I've realized how strongly the view we have when riding, effects us.

    Yes...I'm talking about the "view" you actually have when sitting on your bike...you know, there are the instruments, there is road ahead, there is the screen etc, depending on what make and model you might have.

    You get very familiar with that view, and are usually quite surprised when you start to advance your riding a bit. The view changes, as you begin to explore moving around on your bike.

    (stay with me on this...there is a point)

    At some point, assuming you desire to improve your cornering, it'll be explained about where you need to be on the bike and all that sort of stuff, and it's manageable because it is quite mechanical.
    Then, the first time you do it, you are met with a starkly different "view", and THAT can be a little disconcerting.
    It takes a while to get used to cornering for starters, but it also takes a while to get used to the view you have. It's looking ahead to where you are going, but your perspective on the world has changed.

    Yes, it does happen in the background, and usually you are so focussed on the mechanics of body position etc, that this different perspective becomes less threatening or unusual as you practice, and progress.

    The fact that it is happening in the background does not mean that it has'nt or is'nt having an effect on you.

    Once you get to that stage and are completely controlled, you are going to start rearranging the mechanics again, so that you are in the right position for more aggressive cornering....AND you'll have a new "view" to get used to, which in the meantime can be very disconcerting, at a bad time.

    ie: When you develope your skills and abilities to maximise your body position hanging a fair way off the bike, and looking through the corner, that quite often the bike may be completely out of the range of your view, and you'll feel like you are arriving at the corner slightly ahead of the bike and are pulling it through with you.
    Or the view you have is way down low beside the tank, where all you can see, is what is in the immediate vacinity of your view ahead.
    Your perspective will be something you are'nt accustomed to, and it does have an effect on you.

    So...as you are learning to take corners at whatever level, make a conscious effort to take in the view from that new perspective, and embrace it. It will become the norm more quickly, and stop undermining your progress.

    At the more extreme lean angles and body positions, the view can be quite foreign, even to an advanced but unpractised rider. So it IS something that you need to maintain, just like any other skill.

    So yeah....take in the view, bring it into the conscious mind and adjust to it. It can be a whole new world, so don't get put off...
    And ENJOY the new "View".

    Just something else to think about. :)
    • Like Like x 2
  2. It takes me about 15 or 20 miles to get the feel of a different bike, or view as you like to put it, I havent heard it called that before, Hahahahahahaha,
    Especially from sports to cruiser,
  3. Deadman, i'm talking about the actual physical view you have. What you 'see' when sitting on the bike.
    Are you talking about that or the 'feel' of a different bike mate?

    What else would you call it? It's the view you have ahead of you?
  4. When the view changes, it throws out everything. Your perception of distance and speed, radius and line, camber and slope... everything. I've said this before, but it's like learning to ride all over again, because everything's different. But that's part of a larger picture, because when you change bikes, or when you start moving your body around in non trivial ways, the feel and the response and the dynamics of the machine change too. Small changes in some ways, big changes in others. A bike will behave very differently when you're hanging a long way off it in a corner, to what it does if you take the same corner just sitting on it.

    So for me, the view is part of it, but only part. You get accustomed to one bike and one position and one view and one set of responses and behaviours. Change something, anything, perhaps add 5 psi to the front tyre pressure, or a stack of front preload, and everything changes. Learning to deal with and accommodate and use and utilise those changes, when you start moving your body weight around, is one of the most profound (and difficult) challenges on the way to becoming an advanced rider.
  5. i like nakeds. no view of bike.
    the buels are renown for this.
    sensation of flying.
  6. Absolutely KD. i have 3-4 different 'modes', dependent on how committed i'm riding. Each mode is a different state of place.

    I intended only to focus on the 'view' because exploring newish riders might not realize what it is that may be adding to some of their cornering angst. (Apart from the more obvious nasties)

    But yes. It is one smallish part of a much broader and significant group of challenges.
    Being visual animals, i have thought the matter of 'view', the physical viewing point, may be more readily understood by most riders. That getting accustomed to the varying views, could lead them along the path.

    ( cheeses!, i sound like an evangelist minister!) LOL.

    Anyway, i was trying to provoke some thoughts on the subject of the 'view' in the minds of riders. I don't recall the changing viewpoint being discussed on it's own.

    Just explaining...
  7. Agree.

    I used a different bike for my licence test; a CBR125 vs my VTR250. The CBR was so "short" at the front compared to mine, that I felt like I was looking over the face of a cliff and was about to be launched off. It was the view, not just the feel of the bike (which was very light and flippy compared to mine).

    I know when I tried out your cornering suggestions, plus the more agressive ones I was taught at my licence test class, it definately changed the appearance of the corner. Sounds obvious I suppose.
  8. [chuckle] I did my license test - for full open black - in Sep 79 when I was 16y 9m + about 2 days, on a GS750. I'd already spent 10 months terrorising NSW & the ACT on a 400/4, so why not?

    Sorry - back on topic.
  9. Difference between the zzr250 and the old boys beamer... was remarkable when i hopped back onto the 250 - it felt like a toy, narrow and i couldnt see anything ahead except road :p. And it SCARED me! Literally. Getting back on the 250 after the 1200 was as uncomfortable as i ever felt on a bike, including when i first started :p.
    I actually rather liked seeing the instrument cluster on the beamer.
  10. Mr Messy - I have one for you. Try riding a 200cc Vespa scooter, with a trailer, and a billboard on the trailer. Do that for 6 hours or so, then jump on your own bike to ride home. A ZX14. That's culture shock.
  11. Uncanny. My first road bike was the 400/4. :)
  12. With regards to my own riding. If i have'nt ridden for a few months, it takes me a week of solid riding to get back up to my regular level of competency.
    Particularly, the finer points of control.

    Out in the twisties i can't go whole hog initially because what feels like a fairly aggressive hang off, is actually a little tamer. I find it a little disconcerting, have my viewpoint pushed way out there. I have to pretty much work my way back into my slot.
    After a day out, i'm ready to rip it though.as i get used to being way out there, for real. :)

    I can easily imagine how daunting the restricted view of relatively full on commitment to a corner must feel like for a rider trying to get there for the first time.
    For instance, when in my slot at my full pace, i can no longer keep my head parallel to the horizon, so i am oeering out through the the very top of my helmet, which is quite tilted.
    That reduces what i can see overall, a fair bit, and the world is at a funny angle (tilt). But i am accoustomed to it. On the track, where i can ride unrestrained up to the limit of tyre grip, my view point (eye-ball location), takes me a good session or two to get used to. Obviously, i can't ride at that level on the road. (or won't) :)
  13. When I first jumped on my Zed that was certainly the first thing I noticed. Coming from a full faired bike, the Zed was completely stark in comparison. This was exasperated again by removing the mirrors.

    I've now become so used to having nothing at all in front of me that every time I jump on a faired bike I feel so alien.

    I can relate to the "Feeling of flying" as previously mentioned.
  14. On the older Dukes you has such a long reach to the low bars. You really had to physically get up there on the tank to feel that you were in the right place for cornering.
    Basically it made you ride well, at the expense of a little confidence or comfort depending on the rider.
    With the Jap bikes you were already there and it took a lot less physical effort to make them corner hard. They had a lot less reach to the bars. My god you could almost say comfortable.
    The cost was that it could make you a lazy rider. Or give a little too much confidence for those who didn't have the discipline and control.
  15. Bugger, it seems this thread is'nt very interesting to the target audience, but thanks anyway, to you guys that have chimed in.
    Perhaps i should've called it ("the view" - CRASH!)
  16. I'm listening mate. Please don't stop teaching.
  17. It's interesting to read, but I'd wager that most of us noobs have only really ridden one bike for any length of time.

    Apart from my bike I've only ridden a CBR250RR long enough to get to know it a bit, the other bikes I've ridden have just been for my learners permit and a few test rides.

    EDIT: So at least for me, I might have a few thoughts on the topic but I'm better off shutting up and listening.
  18. The biggest "view" change a newbie will get is when they upgrade from LAMS to a bigger bike.
    And at that time they've a lot more to contend with than how the world looks from their new saddle.
    I agree the "view" is a part of it (for mine, I could suddenly see over a certain fence and through a blind corner, for example...), but I wonder just how important it is compared with the handling dynamics of a new, usually bigger/heavier bike?
  19. Guys hang on. I just used the changing of bikes as an example to demonstrate what i was getting at. The thread is about the difference in views from riding in a straight line, as compared to first starting get the upper body lean going, then starting to shift arsk a little and getting down for the first time, and then really getting serious with body position and how the point of view changes, riding your own bike.
    I'll change the OP.

    This change in viewpoint, completely changes the way information is coming to you, because your eyes are no longer in the familiar position, centred on the bike, with everything in it's usual place.
  20. Hehe... Good on ya mate..and thanks. Hopefully after the changes the thread will now be more to the actual point i'm making but stuffed up inadvertantly.